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Community > Posts By > Seamonster
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Topic:
Punk
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Damn I forgot Wendy O' and the plasmatics.
R.I.P. Wendy. |
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Topic:
Favorite Maiden album
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Killers was the first album I ever bought.
It's realy tough to pick a fav. I like them all from Iron Maiden to somewhere in time, Don't listen to much after that one. But all before it Rocked! |
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Topic:
Do dogs go to heaven?
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This will answer your question.
Or not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOHPQusSc5Q |
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If one's faith is in the Judeo/Christain God - the biblical authors have no reason to be doubted. That's an oxymoronic statement right there. The very fact that you've put FAITH in that picture is what prevents you from doubting it. But it doesn't change the argument. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the number of times it has been posted that people just don't want the bible to be true. Check a few dozen of Abra's posts - he's not kept this a secret. And I don't understand what makes you think that someone who believes in the bible hasn't investigated it. This is also a total farce. It's true that today AFTER all my studies and realizations I would not want the Bible to be true. Why should I? If you believe in what the Bible says it's about a God who cast countless INNOCENT people into an eternal hell fire. It's about a God who places BETS with a supposedly demonic angel where human souls are the poker chips! It's about a God who is mean to people who supposedly already love him and are already his LOYAL SERVANTS. To believe in the Bible you truly need to believe that God is so egoistically hung up on TESTING whether or not people LOVE HIM that's it can't be described as anything other than truly SICK. Not to mention the FACT that according to the religion overall, God is supposed to already KNOW what's in our hearts and there is NOTHING we can hide from God! Can't you see the oxymoronic situation here? A God who is supposed to KNOW what's in your heart and yet he doesn't TRUST anyone?  But this wasn't the REASON that I gave up on the Bible. Actually back when I rejected it I WANTED to believe it! I didn't think about all these gory details at that time. It was my intention to TEACH IT! So you are way off base trying to portray me as a skeptic who never wanted to believe it. That's simply a completely fabrication on your part and you even KNOW IT. You've heard my history before, to try and portray me now as someone who never wanted the Bible to be true is downright deception and nothing short of dishonest. Originally I wanted the Bible to be truth, moreover I BELIEVED it was true! But that was BEFORE I READ IT! Yes, let's face it, it's NOT IMPORTANT to read the Bible to become a Christian. In fact MOST Christians have no clue what's even in the Bible. They just accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and go on their merry way. If they do read the Bible they DON'T QUESTION IT, then just say, "Well God must have his reasons, he knows best". But I wanted to TEACH the Bible! Telling people "Well God must have his reasons" every time someone asks me to explain something did not cut it for me. Besides people are always saying that the Bible contains ANSWERS to every question. Welll, surely if that's true then it must contain answer to questions that people might normally ask. The TRUTH it that it DOESN'T. That's the TRUTH. No one can even tell you why God can't forgive people unless they've butchered an animals. IT DOESN'T SAY in the Bible why God is APPEASED by blood sacrifices. Now that's a question that should be explained. I can explain it! It's because the authors weren't even being ORIGINAL when they made it up. It's no different than any other Mediterranean Mythologies. Also, there's the issue of why the "Jesus Story" was told hundreds of years before Jesus was born in so MANY different forms. The people who WANT the Bible to be true are trying to claim that the Devil had people make up these stories so that modern generations would see this and think that it's just a plagiarized myth. But that would mean TWO THINGS. First, it implies that Satan knows what God is going to do BEFORE God does it, and secondly it implies that God never KNEW that Satan had done that since he never bothered mentioning in the Bible that those stories existed. The only reason I take about not WANTING the Bible to be true is when people come at me from the point of view of pure FAITH. Why would anyone WANT the biblical story to be true? Why would you WANT it to be true? The story claims that all of humanity fell from grace from our creator and that he had to have his son slaughtered just to save our totally UNWORTHY butts. Why would anyone WANT such a story to be true? I think clearly any SANE person would be truly saddened if the Bible IS TRUE. There most certainly is nothing to 'Rejoice" about if it were true. If Jesus had to die on the Cross it's YOUR FAULT! That's what the Bible is saying! Why would you want to that to be TRUE ON PURE FAITH? That's a faith issue, that you have never addressed in all the times that I've asked it? Why do you WANT it to be true that you've failed your creator and he had to have his son brutally murdered and publicly humiliated to SAVE your butt? Why would you WANT that to be true? And would you be disappointed if you discovered that it wasn't true? If you found out today in no uncertain terms that the Bible is entirely made up by man would you be disappointed? If so why? Do you like the idea that a God had to have his son butchered to pay for your sinful ways? And if you don't like that picture then why believe it on PURE FAITH ALONE? Why fight so hard to support such an ugly picture of not only man, but of God as well? Surely you can see that MAJOR PROBLEM with the WHOLE PICTURE. You supposedly have an ALL-PERFECT creator creating a PERFECT world and then sin miraculously comes into this picture from NOWHERE! That's absurd already. If there was a perfect creator that created an imperfect universe he'd have no one to blame but himself. The idea that it's because he gave people FREE WILL just doesn't cut it. Giving people FREE WILL doesn't automatically create evil. In fact, if God's heaven was supposed to be PERFECT then why did a fully their of God's angels not like it? Clearly it must not have been PERFECT from their point of view. So now we're struck with a 'subjectively perfect' heaven that some people think is perfect and others do not. There can be no such things as ABSOLUTE PERFECTION if we have so many angels disagreeing that it's PERFECT. The whole story is an oxymoronic story Eljay. Trying to discredit people who recognize this by trying to claim that it's just because they don't want it to be true is truly a dishonest tactic. To the people who are interested in REASON I hold that the Bible and the Biblical God is UNREASONABLE. Therefore if we are to believe in the Bible we must believe that God is UNREASONABLE. When reading the Bible all we need to do is ask ourselves the following two questions? 1. Would a truly all-wise, loving God have written or done the things the Bible claims? 2. Would men who are trying to put fear into their readers make this stuff up? When I do that I find myself answering NO to the first question constantly, and YES to the second question all the time. So which question is more likely to be true based on REASON? To the people who claim that we must have FAITH, I say the following: Why would I want to have FAITH that our creator is at war with a measly fallen angel? Why would I want to have FAITH that all of mankind has fallen from grace from God? Why would I want to have FAITH that the only way to obtain the LOVE of this God is to believe that he had his son slaughtered on a pole to pay for my pathetic rebellious behavior? Why would I want to have FAITH that if I can't find the story believable this God will cast me into a pit of eternal damnation even though I'm actually a good person but just couldn't buy into this horror story? Why would I want to have FAITH that God is UNREASONABLE? Yes, you are right about that. Now that I look at this unreasonable book in GREAT DETAIL for over 40 years of LIFE, I've come to the final conclusion that I don't want it to be True. It's a horror story about a God who will send innocent people to hell just because they refuse to believe that God is an insane madman who's at war with a fallen angel, and keeps changing his mind about how he wants to deal with humanity (i.e. one moment he's flushing them away in a global flood, and the next moment he's having his son nailed to a pole so he can forgive them their sins). Hey, as far as I'm concerned BOTH of those solutions to his problems are EQUALLY SICK! This is a story about a supposedly FATHER IMAGE God who has failed MISERABLY as a father and now he's taking it all out on his children. If he were a human being he's be in jail on child abuse charges. And you expect me to accept this story ON PURE FAITH when there is NO REASONABLE reason to believe it? That's crazy. The story is as absurd as Greek Mythology if not more absurd. Yet you don't seem to have any problem at all chalking Zeus off as a lost cause. Why do you cling to this absurd picture when it's basically proven itself to be anything but divine. Abra; I did not say that you never wanted the bible to be true. I simply said you don't want the bible to be true. This post here demonstrates it by your own words - and it's not the first time you've said it. You're just the poster child for it. I really couldn't care less how you came about your conclusion - or whether you made the decision 30 years ago, or last year. You prove my point. You don't want the bible to be true. It matters not what pretextual arguments you attempt to create to support your view - it never comes from context anyway. So be it. If the bible were true that would be horrible. A god that kills babies and commands people to kill their own childern. You have to be a bit sick in the head to want the bible to be true. I hate to have to break this to you - but God kills everyone. This is a demonstratable - "SCIENTIFIC FACT". The bible says it is the "soul who sins who will die" - and that "all men sin" We observe that everyone dies. So what's your point? Scientifc Fact?   There is nothing scientific or factual about a god. |
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If one's faith is in the Judeo/Christain God - the biblical authors have no reason to be doubted. That's an oxymoronic statement right there. The very fact that you've put FAITH in that picture is what prevents you from doubting it. But it doesn't change the argument. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the number of times it has been posted that people just don't want the bible to be true. Check a few dozen of Abra's posts - he's not kept this a secret. And I don't understand what makes you think that someone who believes in the bible hasn't investigated it. This is also a total farce. It's true that today AFTER all my studies and realizations I would not want the Bible to be true. Why should I? If you believe in what the Bible says it's about a God who cast countless INNOCENT people into an eternal hell fire. It's about a God who places BETS with a supposedly demonic angel where human souls are the poker chips! It's about a God who is mean to people who supposedly already love him and are already his LOYAL SERVANTS. To believe in the Bible you truly need to believe that God is so egoistically hung up on TESTING whether or not people LOVE HIM that's it can't be described as anything other than truly SICK. Not to mention the FACT that according to the religion overall, God is supposed to already KNOW what's in our hearts and there is NOTHING we can hide from God! Can't you see the oxymoronic situation here? A God who is supposed to KNOW what's in your heart and yet he doesn't TRUST anyone? But this wasn't the REASON that I gave up on the Bible. Actually back when I rejected it I WANTED to believe it! I didn't think about all these gory details at that time. It was my intention to TEACH IT! So you are way off base trying to portray me as a skeptic who never wanted to believe it. That's simply a completely fabrication on your part and you even KNOW IT. You've heard my history before, to try and portray me now as someone who never wanted the Bible to be true is downright deception and nothing short of dishonest. Originally I wanted the Bible to be truth, moreover I BELIEVED it was true! But that was BEFORE I READ IT! Yes, let's face it, it's NOT IMPORTANT to read the Bible to become a Christian. In fact MOST Christians have no clue what's even in the Bible. They just accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and go on their merry way. If they do read the Bible they DON'T QUESTION IT, then just say, "Well God must have his reasons, he knows best". But I wanted to TEACH the Bible! Telling people "Well God must have his reasons" every time someone asks me to explain something did not cut it for me. Besides people are always saying that the Bible contains ANSWERS to every question. Welll, surely if that's true then it must contain answer to questions that people might normally ask. The TRUTH it that it DOESN'T. That's the TRUTH. No one can even tell you why God can't forgive people unless they've butchered an animals. IT DOESN'T SAY in the Bible why God is APPEASED by blood sacrifices. Now that's a question that should be explained. I can explain it! It's because the authors weren't even being ORIGINAL when they made it up. It's no different than any other Mediterranean Mythologies. Also, there's the issue of why the "Jesus Story" was told hundreds of years before Jesus was born in so MANY different forms. The people who WANT the Bible to be true are trying to claim that the Devil had people make up these stories so that modern generations would see this and think that it's just a plagiarized myth. But that would mean TWO THINGS. First, it implies that Satan knows what God is going to do BEFORE God does it, and secondly it implies that God never KNEW that Satan had done that since he never bothered mentioning in the Bible that those stories existed. The only reason I take about not WANTING the Bible to be true is when people come at me from the point of view of pure FAITH. Why would anyone WANT the biblical story to be true? Why would you WANT it to be true? The story claims that all of humanity fell from grace from our creator and that he had to have his son slaughtered just to save our totally UNWORTHY butts. Why would anyone WANT such a story to be true? I think clearly any SANE person would be truly saddened if the Bible IS TRUE. There most certainly is nothing to 'Rejoice" about if it were true. If Jesus had to die on the Cross it's YOUR FAULT! That's what the Bible is saying! Why would you want to that to be TRUE ON PURE FAITH? That's a faith issue, that you have never addressed in all the times that I've asked it? Why do you WANT it to be true that you've failed your creator and he had to have his son brutally murdered and publicly humiliated to SAVE your butt? Why would you WANT that to be true? And would you be disappointed if you discovered that it wasn't true? If you found out today in no uncertain terms that the Bible is entirely made up by man would you be disappointed? If so why? Do you like the idea that a God had to have his son butchered to pay for your sinful ways? And if you don't like that picture then why believe it on PURE FAITH ALONE? Why fight so hard to support such an ugly picture of not only man, but of God as well? Surely you can see that MAJOR PROBLEM with the WHOLE PICTURE. You supposedly have an ALL-PERFECT creator creating a PERFECT world and then sin miraculously comes into this picture from NOWHERE! That's absurd already. If there was a perfect creator that created an imperfect universe he'd have no one to blame but himself. The idea that it's because he gave people FREE WILL just doesn't cut it. Giving people FREE WILL doesn't automatically create evil. In fact, if God's heaven was supposed to be PERFECT then why did a fully their of God's angels not like it? Clearly it must not have been PERFECT from their point of view. So now we're struck with a 'subjectively perfect' heaven that some people think is perfect and others do not. There can be no such things as ABSOLUTE PERFECTION if we have so many angels disagreeing that it's PERFECT. The whole story is an oxymoronic story Eljay. Trying to discredit people who recognize this by trying to claim that it's just because they don't want it to be true is truly a dishonest tactic. To the people who are interested in REASON I hold that the Bible and the Biblical God is UNREASONABLE. Therefore if we are to believe in the Bible we must believe that God is UNREASONABLE. When reading the Bible all we need to do is ask ourselves the following two questions? 1. Would a truly all-wise, loving God have written or done the things the Bible claims? 2. Would men who are trying to put fear into their readers make this stuff up? When I do that I find myself answering NO to the first question constantly, and YES to the second question all the time. So which question is more likely to be true based on REASON? To the people who claim that we must have FAITH, I say the following: Why would I want to have FAITH that our creator is at war with a measly fallen angel? Why would I want to have FAITH that all of mankind has fallen from grace from God? Why would I want to have FAITH that the only way to obtain the LOVE of this God is to believe that he had his son slaughtered on a pole to pay for my pathetic rebellious behavior? Why would I want to have FAITH that if I can't find the story believable this God will cast me into a pit of eternal damnation even though I'm actually a good person but just couldn't buy into this horror story? Why would I want to have FAITH that God is UNREASONABLE? Yes, you are right about that. Now that I look at this unreasonable book in GREAT DETAIL for over 40 years of LIFE, I've come to the final conclusion that I don't want it to be True. It's a horror story about a God who will send innocent people to hell just because they refuse to believe that God is an insane madman who's at war with a fallen angel, and keeps changing his mind about how he wants to deal with humanity (i.e. one moment he's flushing them away in a global flood, and the next moment he's having his son nailed to a pole so he can forgive them their sins). Hey, as far as I'm concerned BOTH of those solutions to his problems are EQUALLY SICK! This is a story about a supposedly FATHER IMAGE God who has failed MISERABLY as a father and now he's taking it all out on his children. If he were a human being he's be in jail on child abuse charges. And you expect me to accept this story ON PURE FAITH when there is NO REASONABLE reason to believe it? That's crazy. The story is as absurd as Greek Mythology if not more absurd. Yet you don't seem to have any problem at all chalking Zeus off as a lost cause. Why do you cling to this absurd picture when it's basically proven itself to be anything but divine. Abra; I did not say that you never wanted the bible to be true. I simply said you don't want the bible to be true. This post here demonstrates it by your own words - and it's not the first time you've said it. You're just the poster child for it. I really couldn't care less how you came about your conclusion - or whether you made the decision 30 years ago, or last year. You prove my point. You don't want the bible to be true. It matters not what pretextual arguments you attempt to create to support your view - it never comes from context anyway. So be it. If the bible were true that would be horrible. A god that kills babies and commands people to kill their own childern. You have to be a bit sick in the head to want the bible to be true. |
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Topic:
Gay Marriage and Atheism
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Marriage is Bull$hit. Well, that's clearly a subjective view. As I said, it is realy only the religious that care. I disagree, I think there are a lot of atheists who see value in a socially recognized 'marriage' between two people as a family. I know that I would see value in marriage even as a pure atheist. We don't need to believe in a God in order to make a public committment to create a family unit. And if we didn't have the official institution of marriage, there would be a LOT of men hitting on the women who are living other another man. Without the institution of marriage it would be far too easy for one guy to come up to another man's mate, and say to the woman, "Tell this guy to take a hike and pick up with me". This is ESPECIALLY TRUE when these predators see a couple going through a diffficult time! And they would prey on those moments! It would be a constant competition just to try to keep your mate. Also if you see someone you like better it would be way to easy to just walk away from your current relationship. There's something to be said for making committments and taking responsiblity for them. But at the same time, demanding that eveyone make a lifetime committment from scratch right off the bat isn't good. There should at least be a provision for year-and-a-day trial runs. And some cultures actually already do that. Sorry, I think That came out wrong. What I ment was it's the religious that care whether gays marry. There are very few atheists that are opposed to gays getting married. |
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Topic:
Gay Marriage and Atheism
Edited by
Seamonster
on
Sun 03/08/09 12:14 PM
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Marriage is Bull$hit.
But the only reason gays would like to get married is so they can enjoy certin legal benefits marriage has to offer, like tax breaks and wills and such. Plus, if two people love each other then why not? As I said, it is realy only the religious that care. Religion has always hated what it does not understand. It despretly tried to keep the blacks down, and when that faild it now sets it's sights on the gay community. And when that fails (and it will). They will move on to the next group to hate and oppress. |
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Topic:
Frank Zappa...
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Yes Zappa was amazing.
Just flat out one of the best there was. |
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Topic:
Punk
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Black Flag
Bad Brains DK Circle Jerks Playground Sex With Jesus Dropkick Murphys Poison Idea Jesters of Chaos Misfits Bad Religion |
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Topic:
Jesus Was Big
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And they are still bigger than Jesus.
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Topic:
Religious rock...
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I prefer Marilyn Manson myself. I went to bible college right out of high school (that was many years ago before my agnosticism took over) and I worked with many christian bands. Some were very approachable, but others took themselves a little too seriously. Most charged exhorbant appearance fees just to show up and that was before they took their cut of the door and don't get me started on their merchandise prices. One would think if they truly wanted to get their message out . . . it is as much a racket as the sun. service. |
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Topic:
Baiting, or overreaction?
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I oppose nearly all forms of censorship. Only in extreme cases of national security or personal privacy do I support it. Or if at some point Bea Arther ends up naked. |
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Topic:
Baiting, or overreaction?
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I have had 3 deleted, they were not read just deleted.
They are cracking down on free thought. |
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Topic:
Gay Marriage and Atheism
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While there is no religion of atheism nor is there a doctrine of atheism to which all atheists need to subscribe to, many atheists have united together and formed freethought and humanistic communities which promote rational thinking, education, and reason over superstition.
Because of the emphasis on rational thought and education it is not a surprise that most of the People of Reason in these groups support gay marriage and equal rights for our friends in the gay, lesbian, and transgender communities. In fact, the only reason people seem to give against equal rights for gays seem to be religious in nature. While some religious people will try to give non-religious reasons, it quickly becomes clear from the poorness of those reasons that the real reason really is religious. The Religious Right has made this issue one of the top issues in their Culture War, but that is not the only reason why this issue has become so important to the larger atheistic community. Our community values equality and fairness and in general we see no valid reason for restricting the rights of our homosexual friends. Such an attack on their rights and the rights of others is irrational and based solely on bronze aged mythology, fear, and ignorance. So when I hear the Religious Right or anyone else for that matter attacking gay rights or trying to ban gays from marrying, I feel like I have to step up to the plate and defend them. So I would defend gay rights even if it weren’t part of the Culture Wars simply because it is the rational and humane thing to do. But since it is part of the Culture Wars, I am even more motivated to fight side by side with my gay friends against the attacks from the Religious Right and others. The greater atheistic community has a lot to learn from the activism of our friends in the gay community. As our rights are constantly under attack from the Religious Right, we walk in similar paths and have to fight for our rights in much the same way. Their fight is our fight and we must stand with them and hope that when the time comes, they will return the favor. It is also important to note that many gay people are also People of Reason. Because the Religious Right and other religious people have such big issues with homosexuality, many gay people end up leaving their religion for more secular company. Gay people are more than just friends of the greater atheistic community; many of them a part of it. |
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Topic:
I have another Question
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Do you think if the Judeo-christian god comes back, he would ever want to see another cross? To me anyway, wearing that cross as a piece of jewelery, would be like walking up to Jackie Onassis with a sniper rifle pendent and say "Just thinkin about John, we loved him so". There is just something that seems a little off there 2 me, thats all nice, Bill Hicks 
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Edited by
Seamonster
on
Sat 03/07/09 05:19 AM
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 Exactly!! Science is always rewriting itself. Thats what science is. Your cartoon just shows the insaine dogma that is christianity. You have proven the atheist agnostic point of view. GOOD JOB!!!!!!! |
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Topic:
Apocalypse
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With the many atrocities in the name of God that has been reflected in the history of mankind, I cannot understand how anyone can follow such a idealogy in the first place regardless of what the religion or faith it comes from. There are truly people who can live peaceful amongst each other who are non religious or spiritual that have better belief systems then the gods that many have worshipped. Clearly a mediterrenean mythology as harmless as it may look is truly as dangerous as history has told it. When people start screaming "Because God whilsts it" then it is already a lost cause as we know in history people have lost their lives just because they are from a different culture, belief system, or lifestyle that is not adapted to the religion that seeks to spread across the globe by any means necessary. I admire those spiritual paths that do not seek by any means possible to influence their idealogies onto others, but instead practice for their own well being and inner happiness. Those are the people we should admire and follow and only few have made in the books of history as we know it. You are blaming religion for the people who abuse it. Do you think prescription drugs are evil? Lot's of people abuse them. Stalin killed millions in the name of Atheism. Does that make all people who do not believe in God evil because Stalin was? The way to my inner happiness and well being is to not follow anyone, and I don't admire anyone for their philosophies. It's their actions I admire. I couldn't care less what they believe. Why is it, that when someone mentions the evils that were done so, in the name of religion, then you(or someone else) flies in here with the claim that you cannot judge a religion based on those that "abuse" the beliefs of that religion, to cause harm. But, then you will make the completely incorrect statement that those killed in Stalin's Russia were killed in the name of Atheism. So, why are historically accurate cases where Religion/religious beliefs was the main cause behind one's actions not allowed to speak for all religion, but killings where the main cause is Socio-Political, you are allowed to make a blanket statement condemning something that you don't agree with, and/or choose not to understand? But you're making my point. Why do you attribute the attrocities of the Crusades or Jihad as anything but a Socio/political cause cleaverly misrepresented as a religious issue? Neither are adhering to the religious principles to which they are claiming justify their actions. Wouldn't you agree that this is seen as it's most obvious with the examples of Stalin and Hitler? Both of these men claimed that their actions were justified by religion. Hitler claimed he was doing God's work, Stalin was an adherant of the religion of Evolution. Actually the crusades they were following the bible to the letter. Religion of evolution like the religion of mathmatics, ok there Hovind. Hovind is a true christian. On July 11, 2006, Hovind was charged in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Florida in Pensacola with twelve counts of willful failure to collect, account for, and pay over Federal income taxes and FICA taxes under 26 U.S.C. § 7202, forty-five counts of knowingly structuring transactions in Federally-insured financial institutions to evade the reporting requirements of 31 U.S.C. § 5313, in violation of 31 U.S.C. § 5324, 18 U.S.C. § 2 and 31 C.F.R. sec. 103.11, and one count of corruptly endeavoring to obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws under 26 U.S.C. § 7212. Twelve of the charges were for failing to pay employee-related taxes, totaling $473,818, and 45 of the charges were for evading reporting requirements by making multiple cash withdrawals just under the $10,000 reporting requirement (a technique known as "smurfing"). The withdrawals, totaling $430,500, were made in 2001 and 2002. Jo Delia Hovind, his co-defendant wife, faced 44 charges. Hovind was sentenced on January 19, 2007 to ten years in prison and ordered to pay the federal government restitution of over $600,000. After his prison term finishes, he will serve another three years of probation. A tearful Hovind had hoped to avoid prison, telling the court, "If it's just money the IRS wants, there are thousands of people out there who will help pay the money they want so I can go back out there and preach." But Hovind's court room behavior was in stark contrast to phone calls he made while in jail. One conversation with Eric Hovind, Kent Hovind's son, showed the two plotted to hide a motor vehicle title and property deeds to prevent the government from collecting the property to pay for owed debt. Wikinews has related news: Kent Hovind's April 2007 appeal denied In February 2007, Hovind claimed, among other things, that his convictions for structuring transactions (cash withdrawals from a bank) to evade currency reporting requirements should be thrown out. But on April 18, 2007, the court rejected the defendants' "unit of the crime" arguments, and the motions for acquittal were denied. he's right where he belongs. Realy? the crusades went down before christianity. um.....ok and people rode dinos. I think I already know where you are comming from.
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my GOD is this pointless argument STILL going on?! Jesus Christ Mohammed! Was that an argument? It looked more like a public service announcement for the santity of humanity.  
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