Redykeulous! Thanks for your politeness and very good public relations.
I will try to be as polite as possible. "The old testament laws do not
have the power they once did?" Aside from not having to slaughter a
chosen unblemished animal anymore, and eat it roasted lean parts, THE
OLD TESTAMENT PREDICTED that the Messiah will MAGNIFY (make bigger and
clearer)the LAW and make it HONOURABLE (not dishounarable) Isaiah:42 21.
Enter the new Testament>>>The New covenant,is to place the said LAW in
our hearts only instead of box and heart or sack on forehead together
with in heart. The new testament writers repeatedly called the Old
testament: "The Scriptures" That was their Bible. There in the NT, one
will see expressions or words to the effect like: "reasoned from the
scriptures; persuaded from the Scriptures; expounded unto them from all
the Scriptures from Moses and the prophets (Luke: 24; Acts etc.) I
(Jesus)..have come to magnify the Law (fulfilment of Isaiah: 42:21);
Study it because U will profit as it will correct you in righteouness
(right way of doing things)and reprove you. As a matter of fact, if one
wants to interfere with the Old Testament, they have the Jews to deal
with. With their life. When they count up the words after copying and
they dont add up they reject the whole thing. But the New Testament? The
Roman Church who captured and seized the control of what one should or
should not believe, made addittions, insertions and substractions to
their monopoly of the NT writings. People did not have the 'FREE WILL'
at one time, to disagree with the Papacy. That would have been sedition
against the Government as their laws were made 'Government laws. So time
the Emperor commissioned that Church administration to compile a 'NEW'
guide-book (as the Jews' guide book ...The OT), here comes a Roman
Church Supervisor (Bishop) with a couple of his chosen letters, to
comprise the 'canon' putting it in the same order it is
today....Matthew, Mark, Luke etc, etc thereby making their favourite,
'Paul' the hero of the NT. If U have to compile a canon now with all the
letters U can get, in the first place, I am sure U will put Paul last as
he was indeed after Peter and they who went to Jesus university for 3
and a half years. And I am sure U wont leave out some letters (books)
they left out that would cause Peter to say "Paul wrote some things hard
to be understood that the unlearned and unstable twist out of the true
meaning. It is only in Paul's writings that there is contradictions
about 'law to keep or not. And Paul is not a next Jesus as most
Preachers believe when they keep saying Paul say... Paul say... When
Paul himself says: "Did I die for U? And paul has to join the line and
follow Jesus like everybody else. Anyway, in spite of all the 'happened'
contradictions and whatever, it is the commandments (the law) that
decide who one is following. It is the commandments and the Prophets
that stabilizes U amidst the tampering. Inspite of the tamperings, the
product of the Church God's peoples writings) will KEEP the
commandments of God and testify of Yahshua the Messiah (Jesus) Rev: 12:
17. Matt: 7: 22,23. There are many who will work amazing miracles in
Jesus name to whom He will say: " I never knew you. Depart from me you
THAT PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS." So practising the Almighty's laws, with
one's free will,and God's help, is the only thing that will make the
difference aside from faith. It is not 'just believe in Jesus' and U
good to go. The devils also believe and tremble says James 2. So One is
predesdined that if he obeys God rather than human traditions,One will
be saved here from more problems, and later with everlasting life.

The Bishop's name is Athanasius.

Wonderful Grieving. I never ceased to feel humbled when I see the great
wealth of knowledge that those like you can provide. I enjoy these
conversations but have learned not to have them often as they really
upset poeple. Most don't want to "think" about it because they don't
want to take the time to back up their beliefs. And some are afraid that
you may sway them and then what would they believe? But mostly poeple
think I'm attacking them and that is not what I want to do. I am
discussing, thoughts, questions, concerns and looking into the basic
psychology behind these religeous things. So in this vein I present
more for your consideration.
Remember that Jesus was Hebrew, that no matter what knowledge of past
or future he had, he had to maintain the Hebrew connection, and the
Jewish culture and faith, and also find a way to make it grow to other
culture and faiths. It this were not so, and if the power of the words
you quote and refer to were still so great, why don't we still
sacrifice, why don't we we view adultery, punishment, and other rituals
in the same way? What makes some things ok to give up, and other things
required to be maintained in the old ways? And somewhat aside from
this topic but still in tune with "do we have fee will", what happened
to the prophets, where did they all go? And if they are still here, why
are they not being followed and believed - for most Christians, at least
in this country, believe their faith to be the largest following in the
world? So why did the Bible end - shouldn't there be more words, the
words of new prophets? Have I asked enought questions to fill a
book with answers? thanks patience can be a virtue.

SATAN AND LUCIFER
ARE 2 Separate entities
all together. Satan
was not gods son,
Lucifer was...Satan
is arrogance Lucifer
is temptation. Sure
there is a certain
level of respect 4 one
another. But Remember
always who and why they
were cast down. as For the
"Free will" issue it was
by your own free will that
You are aloud to question
these things. If you Didnt
have it, Your fingers would
cramp to a point of not being
able to type.

Mike I always appreciate
Your Ideas and the questions
raise here in...all though I
don't always respond to your
threads there are those
that compelled more so than that
of others

Can anyone tell jonathan that Lucifer is the same one who became Satan
or the devil other names. I have to leave for work now. And show him
where in Ezekiel and other places. What book has he been reading? Peter
pan?

For the record,(sorry John) but Satin and Lucifer are the same person.
If I remember correctly, I think that he had took the different name
after the 'cast down'. I just want to say that I have been enjoying all
of the point of views so much that JSH has almost become an addiction to
me. But, I guess that the quest for knowledge can sometimes be a good
addiction.

I have free will.

As do I. If not then we just strum along on auto pilot day by day
untill.................

By the way, thanks for the thread MikeM.

Let me ask this...

1. If there was no free will, then how was "god" able to predict the
exact number of people that would follow into heaven?

2. In the ten commandments given to Moses: "Thous shalt follow no
other god." If The Christian God is god Almighty, and the only God, how
can we worship another God in the first place?

3. For Catholics: In the bible it states that JESUS is our
intermediary, and that we are to go to Jesus (God) with our concerns and
prayers. Why is it then that you believe we HAVE to go through a priest
to be heard by god (Jesus)?

4. Above all else, remember this: The bible was written by man. It
was not delivered to us. It was not dictated (well parts were, but
still). Man is not perfect (man meaning human-kind). le'ts say for
sake of argument that the ORIGINAL bible did mysteriously appear, and
was produced by God (jesus); what about all the translations from
whatever language it was in? There is not a single perfect translation
from one language to another, because there are so many different words,
meanings, verbs, etc.

So, I believe this. The Bible was INSPIRED by God, but it was written
by man. Therefore we should use it as a guidline,a nd not a meterstick.

BTW. We all have free will. Even if we choose not to believe it or not
to follow it, we still make the choice to do so.

Nicely said Daniel. The bible was written by man. The bible itself even
says that. Inspired by God, mabye. It's hard to tell what's what after
the editing has taken place.

Who wrote the bible?

In my understanding God physically wrote the 1st five books of the
bible, and gave the 1st edition to Moses. Who broke it. He went back up
the mountain to ask for a new copy.

Not being one to repeat himself, God directed Moses to sit down with the
angels and make a 2nd copy. [I am making light, but, this is factually
supported in the Old Testament].

Fact of the matter is, nearly every story in the OT is duplicated. The
Laws of Moses are duplicated, the Ark story, the creation of man story.
Why duplicated?

Ah that is the real quetsion. Nobody knows which version is the "angelic
2nd edition" or the "exactly correct 1st edition". There is a wisdom in
this, and there is incredible insight when you start looking at what the
variances are of the "duplicated" stories, and why some are NOT
duplicated.

Mike, oddly enough I was just beginning some research regarding
"duplication". Mine however was to show how incredible it is to see how
many books of the Old Testament are duplications to anchient
mythologies. Myths of Gods and Goddesses long before even the Hebrews
scriped thier truths. I'm working of finding the right information to
send or copy or show in some way or maybe a couple web site to visit to
see this. It's rather amazing to think that the same stories were told
about this god or that god in a different time.

Redykeulous. Experts who want to discredit the Bible say that they copy
from predating cultures like Hammurabbi's (or something like that)Code.
Equally able experts say that they are lying. They copied from the
Hebrews. Who to believe. Furthermore. Who was the first Hebrew mentioned
in the Bible. Lots of people aint know that Abraham was called: "Abraham
the HEBREW.' Noah was still alive when Abraham wa born (I think, I will
check it again)Anyway. What's the point? Abraham's ancestors, like his
father Terah or mother would have also been a Hebrew, and theri parents
and their parents and so on going back to Noah. Noah's doctrine must
have been taught by someone, otherwise God saving him wasn't going to
make sense especially since God can foresee that it wont be taught. But
it was. And it came down to the Hebrew Abraham then to his descendants
then to Jacob who later became Israel and his offspring called
;'children of Israel.'

Okay ...here I go (Normaly I'm trying to stay away from Religion, War
and Political topics)

But ... if you allow me to ask a simple question


What is God?

wow, this is kinda tough......I believe that we have a CHOICE, to serve
God or serve Satan. If we are serving ourselves, we are really serving
Satan whether we realize or admit it.
For prussia, God is love.

That don't sound like free will wezz.

Prussia, God is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. God
is light, without form. God is that which can not even be conceived of
by the likes of us.

Can you think of a better way to start teaching children NOT to even
question his being? After all, they are being taught that they will
never, can never, comprehend his being. And to question his teachings
is to question that which you can only fatham through pure faith and
faith alone.

All the words in every codex, every bible, every lost scripture can not
change what we are fed and exposed to every day of our lives. Those
that want to change, that want to alter their thought, claim to be
agnostic "questioning". Why do they take so long to question? Could it
be that having been programmed, that there will always remain in their
minds "What if it's true?" It's a mighty tall fence many sit on, so
tall they will not commit to one side or the other. Is this apathy or
fear?

So then. What is your answer to your question Prussia? There is a God.
There is no God. Or God is anything Supernatural that humans cannot
understand?

Have any of you experienced what it is like to not be in control of your
thoughts and actions. That is God Will. I have experienced God take
conrol of me several times until I recently let go and let God. I was
diagnosed, in psychiatric terms, as bipolar 6 years ago. I have
experienced 3 so called episodes and have learned the difference between
free will and God will quite intimately.

Since I have given God my free will I no longer feel as if I am goign to
loose control. I am not resisting and running in fear by taking
medication becuase now I understand that these episodes are not a
chemical imbalance. Instead it was simply God will snapping me back in
line with my predestined path.

As it has been mentioned before we live in both a predestined universe
as well as a free will universe. If you don't let go and let God your
"snapping back" to the predestined path may not be an extreme so called
bipolar episode like myself but instead cancer, heart attack, death of a
loved one etc.

I can only recommend that you search for the inner guidance known as God
will as listen.

Sincerely,

David