(((Psssstt. Jane is having a bad hair day!)))

I don't know. I think to do it in their presence is intentionally vicious towards them. To do it without their knowledge would not be right either -- but it would not be directly or intentionally vicious.

I don't know about you, but as far as I am concerned, what people say about other people is a bad reflection on the person saying it more than it is on the person being made fun of or talked about. I don't listen to or engage in vicious gossip nor do I believe it or care about it. The one who listens and believes gossip is as bad as the person who spreads it.

Excellent distinction.

Social groups are enhanced by the group having a jolly good time about something that can be corrected easily, or whatnot.

However it is mortally crude to do so on a topic out of the control of the person at the butt of the joke.

There is humour in everything. There are no subjects in which some humour cannot be found. Even the mkost disgusting and horrible things you can think of.

The problem occurs when an individual or a group of indivuals are hurt by the words.

My take is, a joke is a joke. Sometimes people get offended by jokes, but i dont see that as my problem, People should beable to tell when someone is trying to be funny or not. And people shouldnt take themselves or their situations so seriously.

But you can make fun of someone, without it being a joke. Thats a whole different thing.

JS1: Definitely,Vicious GOSSIP is BAD!
However, the Question concerns a Vicious FUN! {I'm not even sure of what that is -- putting a person down, or embarrassing them?) Well, as I said, an unknown out-of-towner who presents the opportunity for that -- due to H-is/er own fault -- would actually cause me to.. ATTEMPTING TO PLAY ALONG, TURNING THE SITUATION INTO A COMEDY -- MAKING THE STRANGER LAUGH AT H-ER/IM-SELF together with everybody else!

You might be right, Joe -- yesterday, I wasn't in the best of my moods...

Jane, your moods are welcome, whatever they are. I was actually just satirically pointing out that many 'comments' are made purely in jest. The fact that I could have no possible knowledge of your hair makes any comment about it obviously a joke; as opposed to comments made by some for the sole purpose of hurting, embarrassing, or "putting down" someone else. There are those who try to berate others for their beliefs, for example, simply because the beliefs are not shared. Intolerance is not a sign of intelligence, it is a sign of mean spiritedness. This concept is what I perceived the thread to be about.

But not to be a hypocrite, I'll bite sometimes when someone gives me a reason. Most reasons, I try to ignore. This is a community, not a battleground.

Thanx for the explanation, though I'm well aware of meaning of the expression "somebody's having a bad hair day"...
So, the next day -- when I "set my hair in order" -- I cecided to clarify what I meant:
Well, as I said, an unknown out-of-towner who presents the opportunity for that -- due to H-is/er own fault -- would actually cause me to.. ATTEMPTING TO PLAY ALONG, TURNING THE SITUATION INTO A COMEDY -- MAKING THE STRANGER LAUGH AT H-ER/IM-SELF together with everybody else!

only if you're willing to make fun of yourself first

I stink


But not as much as you.





Like that?

Kidding with someone you know, and knows you are kidding is morally acceptable.

"Making Fun" of someone you don't know for frivilous reasons or to impress your friends is reprehensible.

If you have issue with government, politics, religion, take the time and effort to orchestrate an intelligent argument or attack.

People capable of self deprecating humor not intended to elecit sympathy are rare. When you do something stupid that has no particular ill effect, do you laugh? If you do, good for you.

It's morally and ethically accepted every day. I mean you see it in movies, on tv, in music, on the street, in the bar, everywhere.

People sit around and scream about political, moral, and ethical correctness then turn around and crack a joke about fat people or black people or retarded people or whatever.

so you tell me? is it acceptable?

because it seems to me we as a society have already accepted it.

I think JB is pretty right on with the idea of "intention." And Bushi points out the social ramifications of 'making fun' of others, to strengthen one groups thoughts of superiority over another.

So to answer Rockmybodysocks who asks:



We are humans equal in human rights, we are a social animal as we benefit and thrive best as social creatures, HOWEVER, this country, America, and a few others have developed the idea that the individual is the most important of our qualities, being an individual makes us unique and we have been taught that this uniqueness is a desired characteristic.

But deep down we still require acceptance, as we cannot confirm our own existance, it must be affirmed by others. So we conform 'just enough' to be a part of an social group. In small groups we can maintain our uniqueness but how do we do that?

We set our group apart from others by picking characterisitcs we think are most undesirable and then beat them up over those characteristics.

We maintain our individuality, and yet have our existance reaffirmed by those who accept us in the group.

This is not how all the world acts, collectivist cultures do not intentionally segregate down to these tiny groups. But in American as Rock states, it seems to be acceptable to make fun of others whose characteristics do not fit what we view as desireable.

Is that harmful? Gang war goes on in the U.S. all the time, even the prison systems go to great expense to segregate differing group members but not one of them can give you a REAL reason why they belong to one gang over another. Overweight people get fewer jobs, make less money, and have fewer friends, they are discriminated against for no other reason than their looks.

Is that harmful? Is it harmful to make jokes not knowing who may be a victim of that "fun time?"

My suggestion, next time someone "makes fun" ask that person EXACTLY WHY IS THAT FUNNY? You might be surprised at the answer or you might not ask becaue you would not want to be the next one being made fun of when you are not around......

As a matter of fact, I am greateful to all of the immoral and unethical people who have ever made fun of me (that I have been made aware of), because that enabled my improving myself -- if the fun was objective, that is. An objective fun is just a healthy criticism expressed in a derogative form. Though, as hurtful as it might have been, it's always made me think of the reasons I might've given to the perpetrator... And, if I've deemed those reasons having any grounds, I would do my best to modify the personal object of making fun of me...

In my view, it totally depends on the effect that is created by such action. So you'd have to specify the result of doing so before I could make any moral/ethical judgement.

So the ends justify the means?

Morals vs. Ethics

Morals are what are generally believed to be right or wrong behavior.


Ehics are either a branch of the study of morals in philosophy, or a--generally--legalistically defined system of moral behavior such as the Hypocratic oath, or a legal canon used adhered to by lawyers, priests, etc.

Is there then an "ethical" foothold one might take in order to justify making fun of others? Yes. The Shriners.

From the perspective of the person implementing the means, yes.

If someone is expressing a feeling that they are better than someone else or even if they are in a circumstance where they should show modesty but they don't, then yes I think a bit of fun should be made.

If on the other hand a person lacks confidence and/or they are being modest about a great feat they accomplished, then no, there's no reason to bring them down.

In my mind, there is a simple vertical line and everybody belongs at the middle. It is society's job to put people in their place, which is the middle.

Nope. There is no way to make fun of another, even if they are laughing with you, and not be hurting them at some level.