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| Topic: Salvation, Free Will, & behavior - confusion | |
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Edited by
davidben1
on
Fri 11/05/10 02:00 AM
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thomas...
THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT "CHRISTIAN BASED", or supposed to be! there is no mandate supposed to be made, or laws passed, that endorse or protect some PRIVATE MORAL CODE, or religious BASED code of behaviour, AND IF IT COMES FROM THE BIBLE, IT IS RELIGION! so, they want "religious" protection, religious tax status, BUT, IF IT THE WORD "RELIGION", SOON COMES TO SOUND BAD FOR THEM, THEN, THEY EVEN CLAIM, THEY ARE NOT A RELIGION? ??? you got to be kidding me! they want THEIR BIBLE RULES, for all, and society to be based upon this. hello... your not opposed to this? yes, christians are one of the largest special interest groups alive, so therefore the MOST DANGEROUS. the athiest has how many? and, they don't want to silence the voice of christian's, they just don't want some BIBLE BASED LAWS POSED AS NEUTRAL GOVERNMENT! the kkk, had special interest. they were small... so not so dangerous. christians are the MAJORITY, AND THAT IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM. that makes them the most dangerous, as these would endorse a fuhrer, that FORCED ALL TO FOLLOW THE 'BIBLE'.... as, what is the inclination, during civl unrest? PEOPLE ARE GETTING MORE EVIL! WE NEED GOD! THEY HOLLAR! SEEK GOD! HAVE FAITH IN "GOD", turn from your evil ways! BE A GOOD PERSON, LIKE US! AND WHAT BE A "GOOD PERSON"! again, TAINTED BIASED INFINITY DEBATES, AND MORE FIGHTS AND DEMANDS... so, yea, CHRISTIANTY HATH THE MOST POWER TO PUT AMERICA INTO MORE HATE, AS TRYING TO CONTROL CREATES, SO THEN THE WORLD, WHICH IS EFFECTED BY US, INTO MORE RISK OF WORLD WAR. when do foreign enemies most sieze the opportunity to overthrow? when there is divide and unrest in another competing country? we have to major competitor's for world power... china and russia... so, in your little view of ALL SHOULD BE FORCED, YOOU MAY BRING CHINA HERE, SO YOU CAN LIVE WITH CHINESE INTENT ON OVERTHROW, LOL... as you sit there in your chair, you really don't even think world war is possible, since all you fight for is your personal belief? muslims who want legislation or laws to be based upon their beliefs, are special interest... how are you any different? the gay community, is special interest, if they wish for laws to deem their behaviour as "normal"... America's GOVERNMENTAL policy is suppoed to be neutral in all such matters of personal behaviour... EXCEPT STATE LAWS WHICH PROTECT CITIZEN's FROM BODILY HARM FROM ANOTHER... THE FEDS ARE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE INVOLVED WITH THAT! but, since they FEAR THE EXTREMIST CHRISTIANS, WE NOW HAVE THE FBI AND HOMELAND SECURITY, INVOLED IS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE STATE CONTROLLED PROTECTION OF CITIZENS FROM OTHER CITIZENS... fed protect from OUTSIDE INVASION ONLY, MEMBER! and what group of POLITICIAN'S, ARE MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ADDED FED POWERS! THE BIBLE TOTING PUBLICANS, WHOM DON'T EVEN FOLLOW IT ANYHOW! so, whatever man. "christianity" is TRYING TO EXERT IT'S OWN SPECIAL INTEREST THE MOST, SINCE IT HAS THE MAJORITY, SO IT NEEDS TO BE OPPOSED THE MOST, SINCE IT BE THE BIGGEST AGREESOR OF TRUE FREEDOM OF ALL AS EQUAL... many christians would be happy if there were no alcohol... if there were no music on planet earth except gospel music... they teach all their followers that anyone that drinks, smokes, listens to "secular" music, is not married, is anything but hetro, is LESS THAN THEMSELF, OR NOT GOOD? they teach all that THERE ARE TWO MAIN SECTS OF PEOPLE, THE 'WORLD', AND THE BELIEVERS! that is to CREATE DISUNITY FIRST, THE OTHER'S AS LESS, SO THEN RACISM, SO THEN HATE! EVEN THE MUSIC IS BROKEN INTO TWO GROUPS FOR THESE... SECULAR, OR WORDLY... LOL... DECLARE SELF TRUTH AS DIVINE, CREATE DISUNITY, CREATE RACISM, NEXT COME HATE... pretty rudimentary. AND WHO IS PROPOGATING SUCH NOTIONS? RELIGION. ok... no problem... if the christians wanted ALL TO BE TREATED FAIRLY, THEY WOULD SEEK TO VOTE IN WHAT EMBRACES "ALL RELIGIONS" AT LEAST... do they... hell no... THEY HAVE THE LEAST INSIGHT AS TO WHAT IS FAIR! THEY THINK THEY SHOULD ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO DICTATE OTHER'S PERSONAL GROMMING HABITS, EVEN DICTATING THE CLOTHING TO BE WORN? and you can't see how such has no place in THE RULE OF A FREE SOCIETY OR FREE WORLD! give me a ****ing break. since obama is more neutral, they DEEM HIM THE BEAST, THE DEVIL HIMSELF! please... and you can't see how this is the "christians most", that are teaching their children the president is the devil? and that demons may be your neighbor? please dude... not creating hate huh... the only way you can't see such, is you have only ever spent your time defending your own personal religion. people are so trigger happy, not happy, that even a cuss word might make them shoot ya, or stalk ya, or if a child is too cute, they might get snatched by a priest, or a preacher, for sexual gratification or torture... how many kids you gonna have to hear scream the preachers and priests are ****ing them, to see religion in any negative light? religion is supposed to be OF GODS TRUTH? but, those that KNOWS GODS TRUTH, ACT LIKE ANIMALS? and you never correlate what their BELIEVING AS HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT? HOW CAN ANY HUMAN, HEAR GODS TRUTH, AND ACT LIKE A ANIMAL, ENOUGH TO RAPE KIDS? IT HAS NOT STRUK YOU YET, IT AINT GODS ****ING TRUTH! who ya think propogated most such HUMAN INCLINATIONS? christians! they wanted "delegated approved BEHAVIOUR TAUGHT, and good speech"... now, any imply to censor their behaviour, or speech, and they don't like it? how nifty that works. quite the biased self favor wouldn't ya say! and just because there are churches on every corner, does not mean these represent GOD, as ALL WISH TO CLAIM. THE BIBLE DOES NOT RUN THIS COUNTRY! LOGIC RUNS THIS COUNTRY! THE CONSTITUTION DID NOT STATE THE THE "BIBLE" RUNS THIS COUNTRY! OR EVEN BEGIN TO IMPLY THAT IT WAS THE FOUNDATION OF OUR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC! in fact, it stated otherwise, that no morality based upon any religion, or BIBLE FOR SURE, would control the government of these united states. why!? because they were smart enought to see it would rip the country in two given due time... in two... lol... my bad... try nearly as divided as there are BELIEF'S TRYING TO DICTATE THE RULE! SO OF COURSE, ANY SANE PERSON, NO MATTER OF WHAT AFFILIATION, WOULD WANT TO PUT A STOP TO SUCH UNSANITY? and your solution is to MAKE ALL LIVE AS YOU DO? thats what your figthing for, is it not? so of course, this will create DISUNITY, WHICH BECOMES HATE. tell some they are NOT OF GOD, BUT SELF IS? lol... GOD WANTS YOU TO THINK THIS WAY? GOD WANTS YOU TO DO THIS WITH YOUR PERSONAL BODY? be for real... you actually wish to have me believe this is FOR THE COMMON GOOD? and i bet you still can't see how all this shall CREATE HATE? what creates hate dude? do you just hate the athiests, and the fags so much, you don't recognize what creates it? SELF AS BETTER! WHO DECLARES THAT THE ****ING LOUDEST, IN ONE UNIFIED VOICE? THE CHRISTAINS, EVEN THOUGH THEY WON'T EVEN ACCEPT THEIR OWN "OTHER" CHRISTAINS AS EQUAL? AND THIS BELIEF YOU STILL WANT TO DENY CREATES DISUNITY WHICH IS RACISM? the very problem with religious perceptions... they TRULY BELIEVE AND PROPOGATE AND GROW THE "I AM BETTER" MENTALITY, AND THE 'BIBLE IS THE PROOF'. no, your enemy is the tell of how good your doing? because your commanded to LOVE THEM, SO THEN TO LISTEN TO THEM? DO YOU LISTEN YOURSELF, TO YOUR FELLOW BIASED? THEY ARE NOT THEY ENEMY? IF ONE LOVES THEIR ENEMY, WOULD NOT THAT MEAN THEY THINK THEIR ENEMY SPEAK AS MEANINGFUL AS SELF? see... none of them do any such thing, so they are the largest collective group of hypocrits collectively that exists, IF THEY WISH TO CLAIM THEMSELF THE MAJORITY... what is racism TOWARD A BLACK? TOWARD A HOMOSEXUAL? TOWARD A MUSLIM. now, we have increased muslim followers in this country each day? so, NOW THEIR RELIGION, IS EXTREMELY BIASED TOWARD YOUR, AND YOUR TOWARD THEM? and neither religion will concede they hate anything or anybody, lol hum... member... I AM BETTER THAN YOU! creates hate? what do you want, war in america? you cant see how THE HUMAN NOTIONS OF SELF AS DIVINE, BUT OTHER'S ARE NOT, IS WHAT CREATES WAR AND KILLING HUH? you been living in a christian zone too long then. hello! of course dude, THINK SELF BE OF GOD, AND OTHER'S NOT, HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO CREATE THE GREATEST MOST SEVEER RACISM ON EARTH. YOU THINK IT IS BUT ISLAM THAT IS HAVING PROBLEMS? christians shall become more and more the same, with the voices of even the likes of glenn beck, and the rest of the religious cronies... yea, it sure appears just you are figthing to create just what your beloved book declared, the greatest fight of good or evil between human man in civilization's existence, the battle of armageddon.. and so ironic, the christian doctine be one of the greatest voice creating it, along with their muslim buds... ok... so, we got a huge problem, to what dosen't have it's head up its arse.... three big problems... the jewish religion, the muslim religion, and the christian religion? three big daddies that want to rule the world. since there is less logic then ever before on planet earth. you think it's going to get worse or better? the demands of each of these religions that itelf is TOTTALY SUPREME, GET LOUDER EACH DAY? so who shall it get better? it there all based upon procure GOOD AFTERLIFE FOR SELF? all based upon superstition. and these are GOING TO GET MORE SANE, OR LESS SANE? they first believe in what they have no proof for? think it's obvious which way it shall go. is all about the self feelings as GUIDE AND RULE... OF COURSE, A MANIC MORE AND MORE IRRATIONAL POPULOUS OF DEMANDERS WILL RESULT. this is INDEED, what ALL CHURCHES PROPOGATE, BECAUSE EACH ONE OF THEM WANTS TO RULE THE WORLD, AND THE AFTERLIFE AS WELL. that long enough for ya. lol... btw... it was once wisely stated, stupid is as stupid see's... |
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What I find intriguing is the influence of cultures on spiritual perspectives. Following the historical path of some of the Eastern spiritual views indicates that ruling forces have taken just as much advantage of these belief systems as rulers in the Western hemisphere of monotheistic religiosity. Yes, the Eastern cultures surely influenced the origination of their belief systems. The cultural differences between East and West still persists in many areas today. Some cultures place the highest value on individuality while others value social conformity. The Hebrews were social conformists within their own tightly knit communities but they were also individualists of sorts, because they aligned their ‘individuality’ with that of their tightly knit community which often consisted of a social network of extended family. With the evolution of Christianity, we can still see the influence of the original Hebrew culture. The difference was that the social conformity of the new religion revolved around a concept that became ‘The Church’. Eventually, as The Church expanded into the Western world, the individualist culture was influential in creating the predominantly Individualistic view that most Christians hold. The Church, was simply not capable of replacing the tightly knit social conformity that only occurred because of Hebrew heritage and family ties. In the Eastern culture, the identity of people was closely aligned with a social perspective, hence the evolution of spiritual beliefs were heavily influenced by that view which allowed the people to tolerate all manner of spiritual adaptation, simply because the social perspective includes respect for all members of the far reaching social network. SO ABRA – WE'RE CLOSE TO THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE, I hope you're still reading. While I agree with you that the spiritual beliefs of many of the Eastern cultures is more in tune with my core values, we have to remember that it was these religions and the use of their beliefs, by rulers, that allowed the caste system to persist without resistance. The beliefs of the most oppressed of people within this type of culture required that they accept their role and placement in the social structure as a consequence of birth. Their culture prevented individual identity, their rulers created legal barriers preventing mobility between the castes and their religious views prohibited any form of egoism. This combination prevented people from striving to make their life better. While we may consider their spiritual beliefs quite aesthetic, we are also not viewing them through the perspective of the people to whom they belong. What this teaches us is that all forms of human spiritual belief systems incapacitate individual to some degree. Whether it affects self-efficacy, intellectual growth or rational judgment, individual potential is diminished. But that’s not the only consequence, perhaps an even greater consequence of such belief systems is that individuals, in mass, are so easily manipulated through their beliefs. Those are good reasons to advocate for individually constructed belief systems while limiting reliance on ‘organized and rigidly structured’ religious beliefs of the masses. That's a pretty good point and one I think all Atheist should examine. Why don't you just look around the world at the other religions and countries and see what religion is serving them best?Do you think Islam is good with all of it's blood soaked pages of the Quran?You think the people in Atheist China have the best quality of life and are most free because Atheism is the official religion? Look at all the religions of the World.How many of those countries other than Christian have started World wars and Genocide?How many of them have piss poor human rights records?How many countries care less if their people are starving and dying in the streets? I think is it crystal clear that the countries with the best quality of life,most freedom,and where the people are most happiest is Christian countries.It was,is,and will always be Christian countries that will bend over backwards to help the sick and poor.It has always been Christian countries that have fought Wars to help countries that have been invaded and over run by blood thirst murders.It is Christian countries that keep this world from being thrown into murder,chaos,and destruction. I think it is rather incredible Christianity is believed by half of the world by their own free will.With Islam you have no choice.You are born into Islam and you can not choose otherwise.You can not leave Islam.To do so would be a death sentence. I think if I was a Atheist I would have to take a long hard look at the Worlds religions and see what their belief has gotten them. The only problem with this is that the United States of America isn't a Christian country. On the contrary the USA stands for freedom of religion. Thus to point at the USA as an "example" of Christian-based society is actually false. Besides, most Americans who actually call themselves "Christians" do not follow the teachings of their religion. On the contrary they often do precisely the opposite of what it teaches. Just look at slavery. Many Christians were slave owners and fought in the civil war for the south, for example. They would have their slave out in the fields picking cotten whilst they rode in their fancy buggies to attend church and worship Jesus as their savior.  So to even pretend that the USA somehow a product of Christianity is truly an false illusion. Besides, the USA has a lot of problems too, it's certainly not anywhere near a "model country". The Canadians are basically ashamed of us. And personally I don't blame them at all. |
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i think i understand the point your trying to make but im not to sure so correct me if im wrong. I understand that people have different values but im not talking about mans law here, im talking about Gods which is intended for the entire human race not just believers or unbelievers. if your values dont line up with Gods law then you are in error, not Him. I was trying to explain why it doesn’t work. Let me try a different approach. The belief is that God is perfect, God is good. God only creates what is good and perfect, as Genesis suggests, It is Good. To believe that a perfect God could create something that is not perfect doesn’t make sense. In fact that point has been argued relentlessly in these threads as people try to suggest that God created evil. God cannot create evil because God is perfect & good so it seems reasonable to believe that God would “naturally” create only what a perfectly good creator can create – perfect & good. So God provided an abundant source of ‘perfectly good’ food – Is there any food you don’t like? Is there anything you refuse to eat because you don’t think it’s good? Because God thought it was good. Thou shall not kill – Gods' Law – it is right, perfect and good. What does it mean, who or what does it apply to, and in what situations is that Law right, perfect and good? (just for you to think about, I already have) God destroyed an entire civilization because it was no longer ‘good’. How does a perfect & good creation suddenly become no longer good? Oh yes – the argument of free will. OUR will is apparently not FREE for us to use because if OUR will does not completely align with Gods Will – his value system allows him to obliterate life, simply because he does not agree with the values he allowed them to choose. Personally that kind of destruction is not a value I would adopt. I would also not force others to adopt my personal values – each individual is free to find their own. I respect human life too much and understand the difference between cultures & their values, so my placement of values does not seem to match the destructive nature of God. Still there is the question – if God’s creation was perfect, wouldn’t that creation come equipped with the exact values that God thinks are perfect? God in his infinite wisdom created the perfect environment for his perfect creations – how perfect were these things? First the environment contained detriments to his perfect humans – and then he punished the humans when they fell prey to those detriments. I never punished my son for accidents or for an innocent lack of judgment or when the consequences of his actions proved punishment enough. Oh I know the typical response – God knew the detriment, that’s why he demanded obedience. But the point is, if the environment was perfect and good in itself, it was not perfect and good for humans. So either the environment was not created for humans or humans were not created perfect for the environment – there is no other way to view it. Non-the-less, people try to justify it further: God was testing his creations. Even that logic fails, because a perfect and good creator cannot create beneath it nature. If God is infinitely wise, all-knowing, perfect and good – wouldn’t God have known if his creation was perfect? So what would be the purpose of testing it? This is another value I would not be able to incorporate, because testing people is manipulative, underhanded and can have severe consequences. In the Bible story about the destruction of Sodom – Abraham is more concerned about the injustice which innocent people might suffer in the mass destruction of the city. Surely in a city there would be children, right? So Abraham takes to God to task and questions him. If in all of Sodom even 50 ‘good’ men could be found would he destroy the city? God agrees and says NO he will not destroy the city if 50 good men can be found. And if 40 good men could be found? NO. Abraham continues to diminish the number to 10 good men. God acquiesces and then leaves. If God really knew how many good men could be found, would he allow this line of questioning? Still there is the question – What did God consider to be a good man? The people of Sodom were not Hebrews, they had a completely different culture and their cultural values were different than the Hebrews. God gave them free will and upon that free will they built their culture. We have this issue today, should God reward us if we nuke those whose cultures are different? What lesson is learned by anyone when a whole city, men, women and children, is destroyed because they hold different values from our own? Perhaps a god that has the power to create at will, does not hold life in the same regard as those who live it. But then we are here and we must depend on a steady flow of open communication. Communication is something I value, apparently God does not because the ancient writings of man 'supposedly influenced by God' can not even be interpreted with consistency. He is perfect and you are not so how can there be fault in His law. I just did! Understand that Gods laws and instructions are in place for our own benefit. i keep telling people that He sees things and understands things that we dont. He knows the hidden dangers that lay behind certain activites and behaviors that we dont see. i hate to be so bold but it doesnt matter what your personal values are, if they dont line up with God then they are not right. If our benefit and protection was of such great concern to this loving, good, all powerful and perfect creator, then why not simply remove the harmful elements? If free-will is of such great importance then why punish its use? If life is given with only one means to a perfect end then why provide alternative paths? its just that straight forward. if i missed your point please let me know but Gods word is for the entire world and there are no exceptions. Perhaps you didn’t miss my point, perhaps I just didn’t make it clear. What I have written is just the tip of a very large ice berg, but the questions and answers are my own – each must ask their own questions but the best place to start is with yourself. Look around you, ask yourself questions of value - in what way do you value human life? Is the value of life measured it its utility as a means an end or is life an end in itself? Is the value of life in its function or its purpose? Based on the value you give it, how would you behave toward it - all of it in all conceivable situations? How do you feel about other life – animals, other creatures? What is their value to you, to the environment and how would you behave toward it based on your values? How do you feel about the environment? What value is in the vegetation, in the water, in the air, not just to you but to every life form that depends on it for survival? How would your behavior reflect the value you place on those things? No one can ‘give’ you those values and if you try to adopt them from others, your personality and your experiences will eventually give way and your behavior will not match the values you have adopted. If you choose to believe in the God of your inspiration, do so by utilizing all the talents and all the gifts and the opportunities that your life was given to you to experience and learn from. THESE ARE NOT EASY assignments but they WILL become more difficult if you attempt to fit your answers into the values that you THINK support your religious beliefs. Be like Abraham, challenge your faith, not because you don’t believe - but because you do. Is that a lesson you would have considered when reading that story? Find out who you are and what you value IN THIS WORLD, because you cannot serve your God anywhere else but here, where you are. You cannot read commandments or bible stories to gain this knowledge of self. You have talent and abilities that are uniquely your own and commitment to your faith means nothing if you don’t discover how to use those talents and abilities, right HERE. Because this is where you were meant to be and for this environment you have been given the necessary tools for the assignment. The strength of your faith in God, the content of your character and a purpose for your existence cannot be found in the ancient words of men. If you believe that God is perfect and good and that he made you in his image, then have enough faith in yourself to question the meaning of words as men have given them to you. Do you really believe it so easy to find truth? If it were so easy why would so many claim to have the truth while so few agree? Do you really believe that the good and perfect God that inspires you, could find fault in your faith or a life-time of carrying it, even if at the end the only truth you know is that faith? thanks for your reply, i have a better understanding of where you are coming from now. you make a very good point about a perfect God creating man who is imperfect. unfortunately, i dont have an answer for that and im sorry. i just know that God has his reason for doing what he does and im sure of his love for us. about his laws though, i can tell you that he has a way that is right and its not just for some, its for everyone. thats just the way it is. He is a holy God, and He hates wickedness. He gives us a right to choose because love is not love if it is forced upon someone. |
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i think i understand the point your trying to make but im not to sure so correct me if im wrong. I understand that people have different values but im not talking about mans law here, im talking about Gods which is intended for the entire human race not just believers or unbelievers. if your values dont line up with Gods law then you are in error, not Him. I was trying to explain why it doesn’t work. Let me try a different approach. The belief is that God is perfect, God is good. God only creates what is good and perfect, as Genesis suggests, It is Good. To believe that a perfect God could create something that is not perfect doesn’t make sense. In fact that point has been argued relentlessly in these threads as people try to suggest that God created evil. God cannot create evil because God is perfect & good so it seems reasonable to believe that God would “naturally” create only what a perfectly good creator can create – perfect & good. So God provided an abundant source of ‘perfectly good’ food – Is there any food you don’t like? Is there anything you refuse to eat because you don’t think it’s good? Because God thought it was good. Thou shall not kill – Gods' Law – it is right, perfect and good. What does it mean, who or what does it apply to, and in what situations is that Law right, perfect and good? (just for you to think about, I already have) God destroyed an entire civilization because it was no longer ‘good’. How does a perfect & good creation suddenly become no longer good? Oh yes – the argument of free will. OUR will is apparently not FREE for us to use because if OUR will does not completely align with Gods Will – his value system allows him to obliterate life, simply because he does not agree with the values he allowed them to choose. Personally that kind of destruction is not a value I would adopt. I would also not force others to adopt my personal values – each individual is free to find their own. I respect human life too much and understand the difference between cultures & their values, so my placement of values does not seem to match the destructive nature of God. Still there is the question – if God’s creation was perfect, wouldn’t that creation come equipped with the exact values that God thinks are perfect? God in his infinite wisdom created the perfect environment for his perfect creations – how perfect were these things? First the environment contained detriments to his perfect humans – and then he punished the humans when they fell prey to those detriments. I never punished my son for accidents or for an innocent lack of judgment or when the consequences of his actions proved punishment enough. Oh I know the typical response – God knew the detriment, that’s why he demanded obedience. But the point is, if the environment was perfect and good in itself, it was not perfect and good for humans. So either the environment was not created for humans or humans were not created perfect for the environment – there is no other way to view it. Non-the-less, people try to justify it further: God was testing his creations. Even that logic fails, because a perfect and good creator cannot create beneath it nature. If God is infinitely wise, all-knowing, perfect and good – wouldn’t God have known if his creation was perfect? So what would be the purpose of testing it? This is another value I would not be able to incorporate, because testing people is manipulative, underhanded and can have severe consequences. In the Bible story about the destruction of Sodom – Abraham is more concerned about the injustice which innocent people might suffer in the mass destruction of the city. Surely in a city there would be children, right? So Abraham takes to God to task and questions him. If in all of Sodom even 50 ‘good’ men could be found would he destroy the city? God agrees and says NO he will not destroy the city if 50 good men can be found. And if 40 good men could be found? NO. Abraham continues to diminish the number to 10 good men. God acquiesces and then leaves. If God really knew how many good men could be found, would he allow this line of questioning? Still there is the question – What did God consider to be a good man? The people of Sodom were not Hebrews, they had a completely different culture and their cultural values were different than the Hebrews. God gave them free will and upon that free will they built their culture. We have this issue today, should God reward us if we nuke those whose cultures are different? What lesson is learned by anyone when a whole city, men, women and children, is destroyed because they hold different values from our own? Perhaps a god that has the power to create at will, does not hold life in the same regard as those who live it. But then we are here and we must depend on a steady flow of open communication. Communication is something I value, apparently God does not because the ancient writings of man 'supposedly influenced by God' can not even be interpreted with consistency. He is perfect and you are not so how can there be fault in His law. I just did! Understand that Gods laws and instructions are in place for our own benefit. i keep telling people that He sees things and understands things that we dont. He knows the hidden dangers that lay behind certain activites and behaviors that we dont see. i hate to be so bold but it doesnt matter what your personal values are, if they dont line up with God then they are not right. If our benefit and protection was of such great concern to this loving, good, all powerful and perfect creator, then why not simply remove the harmful elements? If free-will is of such great importance then why punish its use? If life is given with only one means to a perfect end then why provide alternative paths? its just that straight forward. if i missed your point please let me know but Gods word is for the entire world and there are no exceptions. Perhaps you didn’t miss my point, perhaps I just didn’t make it clear. What I have written is just the tip of a very large ice berg, but the questions and answers are my own – each must ask their own questions but the best place to start is with yourself. Look around you, ask yourself questions of value - in what way do you value human life? Is the value of life measured it its utility as a means an end or is life an end in itself? Is the value of life in its function or its purpose? Based on the value you give it, how would you behave toward it - all of it in all conceivable situations? How do you feel about other life – animals, other creatures? What is their value to you, to the environment and how would you behave toward it based on your values? How do you feel about the environment? What value is in the vegetation, in the water, in the air, not just to you but to every life form that depends on it for survival? How would your behavior reflect the value you place on those things? No one can ‘give’ you those values and if you try to adopt them from others, your personality and your experiences will eventually give way and your behavior will not match the values you have adopted. If you choose to believe in the God of your inspiration, do so by utilizing all the talents and all the gifts and the opportunities that your life was given to you to experience and learn from. THESE ARE NOT EASY assignments but they WILL become more difficult if you attempt to fit your answers into the values that you THINK support your religious beliefs. Be like Abraham, challenge your faith, not because you don’t believe - but because you do. Is that a lesson you would have considered when reading that story? Find out who you are and what you value IN THIS WORLD, because you cannot serve your God anywhere else but here, where you are. You cannot read commandments or bible stories to gain this knowledge of self. You have talent and abilities that are uniquely your own and commitment to your faith means nothing if you don’t discover how to use those talents and abilities, right HERE. Because this is where you were meant to be and for this environment you have been given the necessary tools for the assignment. The strength of your faith in God, the content of your character and a purpose for your existence cannot be found in the ancient words of men. If you believe that God is perfect and good and that he made you in his image, then have enough faith in yourself to question the meaning of words as men have given them to you. Do you really believe it so easy to find truth? If it were so easy why would so many claim to have the truth while so few agree? Do you really believe that the good and perfect God that inspires you, could find fault in your faith or a life-time of carrying it, even if at the end the only truth you know is that faith? thanks for your reply, i have a better understanding of where you are coming from now. you make a very good point about a perfect God creating man who is imperfect. unfortunately, i dont have an answer for that and im sorry. i just know that God has his reason for doing what he does and im sure of his love for us. about his laws though, i can tell you that he has a way that is right and its not just for some, its for everyone. thats just the way it is. He is a holy God, and He hates wickedness. He gives us a right to choose because love is not love if it is forced upon someone. Amen I have an analogy regarding the perfect and imperfect why do we not sit and speak to a mirror all day? perhaps it is the same reason God did not merely duplicate his own perfection when creating us,,,,, |
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i think i understand the point your trying to make but im not to sure so correct me if im wrong. I understand that people have different values but im not talking about mans law here, im talking about Gods which is intended for the entire human race not just believers or unbelievers. if your values dont line up with Gods law then you are in error, not Him. I was trying to explain why it doesn’t work. Let me try a different approach. The belief is that God is perfect, God is good. God only creates what is good and perfect, as Genesis suggests, It is Good. To believe that a perfect God could create something that is not perfect doesn’t make sense. In fact that point has been argued relentlessly in these threads as people try to suggest that God created evil. God cannot create evil because God is perfect & good so it seems reasonable to believe that God would “naturally” create only what a perfectly good creator can create – perfect & good. So God provided an abundant source of ‘perfectly good’ food – Is there any food you don’t like? Is there anything you refuse to eat because you don’t think it’s good? Because God thought it was good. Thou shall not kill – Gods' Law – it is right, perfect and good. What does it mean, who or what does it apply to, and in what situations is that Law right, perfect and good? (just for you to think about, I already have) God destroyed an entire civilization because it was no longer ‘good’. How does a perfect & good creation suddenly become no longer good? Oh yes – the argument of free will. OUR will is apparently not FREE for us to use because if OUR will does not completely align with Gods Will – his value system allows him to obliterate life, simply because he does not agree with the values he allowed them to choose. Personally that kind of destruction is not a value I would adopt. I would also not force others to adopt my personal values – each individual is free to find their own. I respect human life too much and understand the difference between cultures & their values, so my placement of values does not seem to match the destructive nature of God. Still there is the question – if God’s creation was perfect, wouldn’t that creation come equipped with the exact values that God thinks are perfect? God in his infinite wisdom created the perfect environment for his perfect creations – how perfect were these things? First the environment contained detriments to his perfect humans – and then he punished the humans when they fell prey to those detriments. I never punished my son for accidents or for an innocent lack of judgment or when the consequences of his actions proved punishment enough. Oh I know the typical response – God knew the detriment, that’s why he demanded obedience. But the point is, if the environment was perfect and good in itself, it was not perfect and good for humans. So either the environment was not created for humans or humans were not created perfect for the environment – there is no other way to view it. Non-the-less, people try to justify it further: God was testing his creations. Even that logic fails, because a perfect and good creator cannot create beneath it nature. If God is infinitely wise, all-knowing, perfect and good – wouldn’t God have known if his creation was perfect? So what would be the purpose of testing it? This is another value I would not be able to incorporate, because testing people is manipulative, underhanded and can have severe consequences. In the Bible story about the destruction of Sodom – Abraham is more concerned about the injustice which innocent people might suffer in the mass destruction of the city. Surely in a city there would be children, right? So Abraham takes to God to task and questions him. If in all of Sodom even 50 ‘good’ men could be found would he destroy the city? God agrees and says NO he will not destroy the city if 50 good men can be found. And if 40 good men could be found? NO. Abraham continues to diminish the number to 10 good men. God acquiesces and then leaves. If God really knew how many good men could be found, would he allow this line of questioning? Still there is the question – What did God consider to be a good man? The people of Sodom were not Hebrews, they had a completely different culture and their cultural values were different than the Hebrews. God gave them free will and upon that free will they built their culture. We have this issue today, should God reward us if we nuke those whose cultures are different? What lesson is learned by anyone when a whole city, men, women and children, is destroyed because they hold different values from our own? Perhaps a god that has the power to create at will, does not hold life in the same regard as those who live it. But then we are here and we must depend on a steady flow of open communication. Communication is something I value, apparently God does not because the ancient writings of man 'supposedly influenced by God' can not even be interpreted with consistency. He is perfect and you are not so how can there be fault in His law. I just did! Understand that Gods laws and instructions are in place for our own benefit. i keep telling people that He sees things and understands things that we dont. He knows the hidden dangers that lay behind certain activites and behaviors that we dont see. i hate to be so bold but it doesnt matter what your personal values are, if they dont line up with God then they are not right. If our benefit and protection was of such great concern to this loving, good, all powerful and perfect creator, then why not simply remove the harmful elements? If free-will is of such great importance then why punish its use? If life is given with only one means to a perfect end then why provide alternative paths? its just that straight forward. if i missed your point please let me know but Gods word is for the entire world and there are no exceptions. Perhaps you didn’t miss my point, perhaps I just didn’t make it clear. What I have written is just the tip of a very large ice berg, but the questions and answers are my own – each must ask their own questions but the best place to start is with yourself. Look around you, ask yourself questions of value - in what way do you value human life? Is the value of life measured it its utility as a means an end or is life an end in itself? Is the value of life in its function or its purpose? Based on the value you give it, how would you behave toward it - all of it in all conceivable situations? How do you feel about other life – animals, other creatures? What is their value to you, to the environment and how would you behave toward it based on your values? How do you feel about the environment? What value is in the vegetation, in the water, in the air, not just to you but to every life form that depends on it for survival? How would your behavior reflect the value you place on those things? No one can ‘give’ you those values and if you try to adopt them from others, your personality and your experiences will eventually give way and your behavior will not match the values you have adopted. If you choose to believe in the God of your inspiration, do so by utilizing all the talents and all the gifts and the opportunities that your life was given to you to experience and learn from. THESE ARE NOT EASY assignments but they WILL become more difficult if you attempt to fit your answers into the values that you THINK support your religious beliefs. Be like Abraham, challenge your faith, not because you don’t believe - but because you do. Is that a lesson you would have considered when reading that story? Find out who you are and what you value IN THIS WORLD, because you cannot serve your God anywhere else but here, where you are. You cannot read commandments or bible stories to gain this knowledge of self. You have talent and abilities that are uniquely your own and commitment to your faith means nothing if you don’t discover how to use those talents and abilities, right HERE. Because this is where you were meant to be and for this environment you have been given the necessary tools for the assignment. The strength of your faith in God, the content of your character and a purpose for your existence cannot be found in the ancient words of men. If you believe that God is perfect and good and that he made you in his image, then have enough faith in yourself to question the meaning of words as men have given them to you. Do you really believe it so easy to find truth? If it were so easy why would so many claim to have the truth while so few agree? Do you really believe that the good and perfect God that inspires you, could find fault in your faith or a life-time of carrying it, even if at the end the only truth you know is that faith? The answers to all these questions are truly simple. The Bible is nothing more than the fables of a specific human culture. And that's all there is to it. The only time any problems arise is when people try to claim that the Bible represents the word of God. So the problems are associated solely with the incorrect and false idea that an arbitrary collection of stories that have been labeled 'The Bible" is the word of God. For example you say: "Communication is something I value, apparently God does not because the ancient writings of man 'supposedly influenced by God' can not even be interpreted with consistency." Well, that's only a problem as long as someone holds to the notion that those ancient writings are the 'word of God'. As soon as they let go of that absurdity then it's no longer an issue. This is why I say that the only thing that can possibly be true is that these ancient Hebrew writings cannot possibly be from any all-wise supreme being because they simply aren't all-wise. Period. Therefore they can be the writings of an all-wise entity. It's that simple. The biblical stories cannot be the word of any God. Trying to support that absurd notion is the source of all conflict and contradictions. Let that notion go and there is no longer any problem. It truly is that simple. |
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Amen I have an analogy regarding the perfect and imperfect why do we not sit and speak to a mirror all day? perhaps it is the same reason God did not merely duplicate his own perfection when creating us,,,,, I think you people are totally missing the point here. We're talking about a perfect creator here. The creator creates new life. This is what it does. There is nothing that says that the creator needs to create 'perfect' beings at the onset. That's totally irrelevant. Think of it in terms of a Perfect Artist. A sculptor or painter does not create a "perfect" work of are with the first carving of the stone, or the brush stroke of paint. However, if they are a perfect artist the finished product will always be a perfect work of art. A perfect artist cannot fail to eventually produce a perfect work of art, otherwise they could not be said to be a perfect artist. Well, the same is then true of a perfect creator a perfect creator cannot create garage in the end. The final product of all the perfect creator's creations must end up being a success. Otherwise the creator could not be said to be a perfect creator. It would be a flawed and imperfect creator because much of what it creates is a failure. Well, given this truth, the biblical God cannot be a perfect creator because the Bible tells us that the vast majority of this God's creations are failure that are such rubbish that he has to cast them into a fiery furnace. No you might say that human artists toss a lot of their 'failed attempts' into the trash. However, human artists aren't perfect artists. If God is a perfect creator then every creation that God creates must ultimately end up being perfect. So if we have several creation myths to choose from (and we most certainly do), and we prefer to believe that our creator is perfect. Then we must choose the creation myths that allow for all of God's creations to ultimately become successful. Such creation myths and spiritual philosophies do indeed exist. Therefore if we would like to believe in a perfect creator we need to choose to believe in those philosophies. The biblical cannon of writings not only describes a God who loses the vast majority of it's creation, but these fables also simultaneously claim that this creator is "perfect". Therefore it even stands in blatant contradiction to its very own stories. So the biblical fables couldn't be true even if we were to accept its imperfect God because its filled in contradictions anyway. People always speak about wanting to 'uplift' the glory of God. Well, you can't do that whilst claiming that the Bible is God's word because that very claim is already a disgrace and insult to God. To claim that the Bible is the word of God is to suggest that God is inept in many areas. God would need to be inept as a creator God would need to be inept as a communicator God would need to be inept at dealing with fallen angels In fact, God would need to be inept at solving just about every problem imaginable, because in just about every instance throughout the Bible he had to deal with his problems using violent methods, and always reacted in belated ways after things got really horribly out of control instead of nipping things in the bud neatly. The list just goes on and on and on. There's nothing perfect about the God that the Bible describes. |
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In response to davidben1 unnecessary,extraordinarily long post which has to be some sort of record on this site....
I have to say what you posted is some of the most ignorant statements I have ever read in my entire life.What the people believe is what defines a country.It is their beliefs that shape a form a country from the beginning and make it what it is today.It is hardly surprising that when you look at Atheist countries they are almost the opposite of what Christian countries are.Communism is usually the way a Government runs,people have little or no free speech rights,news is censored or banned,freedoms are non existent,charities are non existent. What are the best countries in the world with the most freedom and best way of life?United States,Australia,the UK,Canada.Are these Atheist countries?Are these some other religion?They are Christian and they are Christian by a huge majority.If you would read you history books you would learn that these countries were founded on Christian principles by Christian followers who had Christian beliefs.These countries were not founded on by Atheist beliefs or some other religion. The rest of your message which deals with hate by Christians is still puzzling to me.I think you and others have a big problem telling the difference between the way someone acts and hating people for no reason at all.Of course Christians have morals and of course we are going to speak out against issues that effect us such as homosexuality and other issues.That doesn't mean we hate these people we just don't accept the lifestyle they are living. I have said this many times before and I will say it again.Homosexuals,Muslims,Atheist,and others the Christians disagree with have more freedoms here and other Christian countries then anywhere else in the world.If the homosexuals think they are being racked over the coals by Christian countries I would strongly suggest they try being openly homosexual in Atheist China where it will get you swift death sentience. I found you rant about Obama amusing.Considering Christians make up the majority of the population in this country if the Christians didn't approve of Obama he would get no more than 20% of the vote.Yet he got over 50%.Seems like your logic is looking pretty stupid on that one. The rest of you worthless post claiming Christians are somehow just hiding in a hole waiting for the time to take over and force everyone to convert is totally stupid.I would really like to see some truth in that statement.I would love to see how Christians are saying they want to take over and force people to do anything. Wake up!There are no extremist Christians in America and there never has!The only the the Christians are doing is feeding the poor,operating orphanages,and singing songs on Sunday morning. |
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Wake up!There are no extremist Christians in America and there never has!The only the the Christians are doing is feeding the poor,operating orphanages,and singing songs on Sunday morning. So, what's the first thing the Religious Right does when it gets a leg up in Congress? People like Mitch McConnell say their numero uno prioity is to repeal health care and unseat a moderate Christian president. Besides bitching and moaning about how much in taxes they have to pay to support the social safety net. It's easier to drop a a sawbuck in the offering plate and feel good about yourself than to actually BE your brother's keeper. See, that's why your post's logic fails-- Christian churches don't even begin to have the means to be doing what's claimed and they are stingy about the government money it takes to do it, preferring to spend it on guns rather than butter. Or healthcare. WWJD. And that's another reason I don't believe in militant Christianity-- because if there were a God, he'd punish the people that talk out of both sides of their mouths. -Kerry O. |
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thomas... THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT "CHRISTIAN BASED", or supposed to be! there is no mandate supposed to be made, or laws passed, that endorse or protect some PRIVATE MORAL CODE, or religious BASED code of behaviour, AND IF IT COMES FROM THE BIBLE, IT IS RELIGION! so, they want "religious" protection, religious tax status, BUT, IF IT THE WORD "RELIGION", SOON COMES TO SOUND BAD FOR THEM, THEN, THEY EVEN CLAIM, THEY ARE NOT A RELIGION? ??? you got to be kidding me! they want THEIR BIBLE RULES, for all, and society to be based upon this. hello... your not opposed to this? yes, christians are one of the largest special interest groups alive, so therefore the MOST DANGEROUS. the athiest has how many? and, they don't want to silence the voice of christian's, they just don't want some BIBLE BASED LAWS POSED AS NEUTRAL GOVERNMENT! the kkk, had special interest. they were small... so not so dangerous. christians are the MAJORITY, AND THAT IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM. that makes them the most dangerous, as these would endorse a fuhrer, that FORCED ALL TO FOLLOW THE 'BIBLE'.... as, what is the inclination, during civl unrest? PEOPLE ARE GETTING MORE EVIL! WE NEED GOD! THEY HOLLAR! SEEK GOD! HAVE FAITH IN "GOD", turn from your evil ways! BE A GOOD PERSON, LIKE US! AND WHAT BE A "GOOD PERSON"! again, TAINTED BIASED INFINITY DEBATES, AND MORE FIGHTS AND DEMANDS... so, yea, CHRISTIANTY HATH THE MOST POWER TO PUT AMERICA INTO MORE HATE, AS TRYING TO CONTROL CREATES, SO THEN THE WORLD, WHICH IS EFFECTED BY US, INTO MORE RISK OF WORLD WAR. when do foreign enemies most sieze the opportunity to overthrow? when there is divide and unrest in another competing country? we have to major competitor's for world power... china and russia... so, in your little view of ALL SHOULD BE FORCED, YOOU MAY BRING CHINA HERE, SO YOU CAN LIVE WITH CHINESE INTENT ON OVERTHROW, LOL... as you sit there in your chair, you really don't even think world war is possible, since all you fight for is your personal belief? muslims who want legislation or laws to be based upon their beliefs, are special interest... how are you any different? the gay community, is special interest, if they wish for laws to deem their behaviour as "normal"... America's GOVERNMENTAL policy is suppoed to be neutral in all such matters of personal behaviour... EXCEPT STATE LAWS WHICH PROTECT CITIZEN's FROM BODILY HARM FROM ANOTHER... THE FEDS ARE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE INVOLVED WITH THAT! but, since they FEAR THE EXTREMIST CHRISTIANS, WE NOW HAVE THE FBI AND HOMELAND SECURITY, INVOLED IS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE STATE CONTROLLED PROTECTION OF CITIZENS FROM OTHER CITIZENS... fed protect from OUTSIDE INVASION ONLY, MEMBER! and what group of POLITICIAN'S, ARE MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ADDED FED POWERS! THE BIBLE TOTING PUBLICANS, WHOM DON'T EVEN FOLLOW IT ANYHOW! so, whatever man. "christianity" is TRYING TO EXERT IT'S OWN SPECIAL INTEREST THE MOST, SINCE IT HAS THE MAJORITY, SO IT NEEDS TO BE OPPOSED THE MOST, SINCE IT BE THE BIGGEST AGREESOR OF TRUE FREEDOM OF ALL AS EQUAL... many christians would be happy if there were no alcohol... if there were no music on planet earth except gospel music... they teach all their followers that anyone that drinks, smokes, listens to "secular" music, is not married, is anything but hetro, is LESS THAN THEMSELF, OR NOT GOOD? they teach all that THERE ARE TWO MAIN SECTS OF PEOPLE, THE 'WORLD', AND THE BELIEVERS! that is to CREATE DISUNITY FIRST, THE OTHER'S AS LESS, SO THEN RACISM, SO THEN HATE! EVEN THE MUSIC IS BROKEN INTO TWO GROUPS FOR THESE... SECULAR, OR WORDLY... LOL... DECLARE SELF TRUTH AS DIVINE, CREATE DISUNITY, CREATE RACISM, NEXT COME HATE... pretty rudimentary. AND WHO IS PROPOGATING SUCH NOTIONS? RELIGION. ok... no problem... if the christians wanted ALL TO BE TREATED FAIRLY, THEY WOULD SEEK TO VOTE IN WHAT EMBRACES "ALL RELIGIONS" AT LEAST... do they... hell no... THEY HAVE THE LEAST INSIGHT AS TO WHAT IS FAIR! THEY THINK THEY SHOULD ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO DICTATE OTHER'S PERSONAL GROMMING HABITS, EVEN DICTATING THE CLOTHING TO BE WORN? and you can't see how such has no place in THE RULE OF A FREE SOCIETY OR FREE WORLD! give me a ****ing break. since obama is more neutral, they DEEM HIM THE BEAST, THE DEVIL HIMSELF! please... and you can't see how this is the "christians most", that are teaching their children the president is the devil? and that demons may be your neighbor? please dude... not creating hate huh... the only way you can't see such, is you have only ever spent your time defending your own personal religion. people are so trigger happy, not happy, that even a cuss word might make them shoot ya, or stalk ya, or if a child is too cute, they might get snatched by a priest, or a preacher, for sexual gratification or torture... how many kids you gonna have to hear scream the preachers and priests are ****ing them, to see religion in any negative light? religion is supposed to be OF GODS TRUTH? but, those that KNOWS GODS TRUTH, ACT LIKE ANIMALS? and you never correlate what their BELIEVING AS HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT? HOW CAN ANY HUMAN, HEAR GODS TRUTH, AND ACT LIKE A ANIMAL, ENOUGH TO RAPE KIDS? IT HAS NOT STRUK YOU YET, IT AINT GODS ****ING TRUTH! who ya think propogated most such HUMAN INCLINATIONS? christians! they wanted "delegated approved BEHAVIOUR TAUGHT, and good speech"... now, any imply to censor their behaviour, or speech, and they don't like it? how nifty that works. quite the biased self favor wouldn't ya say! and just because there are churches on every corner, does not mean these represent GOD, as ALL WISH TO CLAIM. THE BIBLE DOES NOT RUN THIS COUNTRY! LOGIC RUNS THIS COUNTRY! THE CONSTITUTION DID NOT STATE THE THE "BIBLE" RUNS THIS COUNTRY! OR EVEN BEGIN TO IMPLY THAT IT WAS THE FOUNDATION OF OUR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC! in fact, it stated otherwise, that no morality based upon any religion, or BIBLE FOR SURE, would control the government of these united states. why!? because they were smart enought to see it would rip the country in two given due time... in two... lol... my bad... try nearly as divided as there are BELIEF'S TRYING TO DICTATE THE RULE! SO OF COURSE, ANY SANE PERSON, NO MATTER OF WHAT AFFILIATION, WOULD WANT TO PUT A STOP TO SUCH UNSANITY? and your solution is to MAKE ALL LIVE AS YOU DO? thats what your figthing for, is it not? so of course, this will create DISUNITY, WHICH BECOMES HATE. tell some they are NOT OF GOD, BUT SELF IS? lol... GOD WANTS YOU TO THINK THIS WAY? GOD WANTS YOU TO DO THIS WITH YOUR PERSONAL BODY? be for real... you actually wish to have me believe this is FOR THE COMMON GOOD? and i bet you still can't see how all this shall CREATE HATE? what creates hate dude? do you just hate the athiests, and the fags so much, you don't recognize what creates it? SELF AS BETTER! WHO DECLARES THAT THE ****ING LOUDEST, IN ONE UNIFIED VOICE? THE CHRISTAINS, EVEN THOUGH THEY WON'T EVEN ACCEPT THEIR OWN "OTHER" CHRISTAINS AS EQUAL? AND THIS BELIEF YOU STILL WANT TO DENY CREATES DISUNITY WHICH IS RACISM? the very problem with religious perceptions... they TRULY BELIEVE AND PROPOGATE AND GROW THE "I AM BETTER" MENTALITY, AND THE 'BIBLE IS THE PROOF'. no, your enemy is the tell of how good your doing? because your commanded to LOVE THEM, SO THEN TO LISTEN TO THEM? DO YOU LISTEN YOURSELF, TO YOUR FELLOW BIASED? THEY ARE NOT THEY ENEMY? IF ONE LOVES THEIR ENEMY, WOULD NOT THAT MEAN THEY THINK THEIR ENEMY SPEAK AS MEANINGFUL AS SELF? see... none of them do any such thing, so they are the largest collective group of hypocrits collectively that exists, IF THEY WISH TO CLAIM THEMSELF THE MAJORITY... what is racism TOWARD A BLACK? TOWARD A HOMOSEXUAL? TOWARD A MUSLIM. now, we have increased muslim followers in this country each day? so, NOW THEIR RELIGION, IS EXTREMELY BIASED TOWARD YOUR, AND YOUR TOWARD THEM? and neither religion will concede they hate anything or anybody, lol hum... member... I AM BETTER THAN YOU! creates hate? what do you want, war in america? you cant see how THE HUMAN NOTIONS OF SELF AS DIVINE, BUT OTHER'S ARE NOT, IS WHAT CREATES WAR AND KILLING HUH? you been living in a christian zone too long then. hello! of course dude, THINK SELF BE OF GOD, AND OTHER'S NOT, HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO CREATE THE GREATEST MOST SEVEER RACISM ON EARTH. YOU THINK IT IS BUT ISLAM THAT IS HAVING PROBLEMS? christians shall become more and more the same, with the voices of even the likes of glenn beck, and the rest of the religious cronies... yea, it sure appears just you are figthing to create just what your beloved book declared, the greatest fight of good or evil between human man in civilization's existence, the battle of armageddon.. and so ironic, the christian doctine be one of the greatest voice creating it, along with their muslim buds... ok... so, we got a huge problem, to what dosen't have it's head up its arse.... three big problems... the jewish religion, the muslim religion, and the christian religion? three big daddies that want to rule the world. since there is less logic then ever before on planet earth. you think it's going to get worse or better? the demands of each of these religions that itelf is TOTTALY SUPREME, GET LOUDER EACH DAY? so who shall it get better? it there all based upon procure GOOD AFTERLIFE FOR SELF? all based upon superstition. and these are GOING TO GET MORE SANE, OR LESS SANE? they first believe in what they have no proof for? think it's obvious which way it shall go. is all about the self feelings as GUIDE AND RULE... OF COURSE, A MANIC MORE AND MORE IRRATIONAL POPULOUS OF DEMANDERS WILL RESULT. this is INDEED, what ALL CHURCHES PROPOGATE, BECAUSE EACH ONE OF THEM WANTS TO RULE THE WORLD, AND THE AFTERLIFE AS WELL. that long enough for ya. lol... btw... it was once wisely stated, stupid is as stupid see's... The longer I read the post above, the more I thought: -Wouldn't it be interesting to have a pause after every question and listen to the answers people would give! - Then I thought, I wonder what the results would be in a study with a representative sampling of All the worlds major religions AND include a group of athiests. Hook each individual up to an fMRI, ask the questions, list the responces and then compare the brain activity of each respondent to see what parts of the brain are activated as a result of the question and the answer. I wonder if there would be any difference between believers and I wonder if there would be any difference between believers and atheists???? Thanks Davidben for the intersting time-out, I think I'll write this up - maybe in the future I can influence some Psychologist to undertake such a study... |
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Edited by
Thomas3474
on
Fri 11/05/10 06:53 PM
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Wake up!There are no extremist Christians in America and there never has!The only the the Christians are doing is feeding the poor,operating orphanages,and singing songs on Sunday morning. So, what's the first thing the Religious Right does when it gets a leg up in Congress? People like Mitch McConnell say their numero uno prioity is to repeal health care and unseat a moderate Christian president. Besides bitching and moaning about how much in taxes they have to pay to support the social safety net. It's easier to drop a a sawbuck in the offering plate and feel good about yourself than to actually BE your brother's keeper. See, that's why your post's logic fails-- Christian churches don't even begin to have the means to be doing what's claimed and they are stingy about the government money it takes to do it, preferring to spend it on guns rather than butter. Or healthcare. WWJD. And that's another reason I don't believe in militant Christianity-- because if there were a God, he'd punish the people that talk out of both sides of their mouths. -Kerry O. Oh sure and Atheist's can't possibly have problems with what our Government is doing including health care?As a regular poster in the politics section I know you are wrong. Once again who passed the health care bill?Was it Atheist or Christians?This finger pointing with Christianity as the scape goat is getting old. I also fail to see what the health care bill has anything to do with the bible or Christianity.The health care bill was though up by our Congress and has nothing to do with the bible. Can you post any truth that churches are buying guns before butter?Churches have bought guns before to get them off the streets and they were destroyed on the spot.Considering the churches run all the food banks and Atheist run none I think you are out of ammo. |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Fri 11/05/10 08:23 PM
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thanks for your reply, i have a better understanding of where you are coming from now. you make a very good point about a perfect God creating man who is imperfect. unfortunately, i dont have an answer for that and im sorry. i just know that God has his reason for doing what he does and im sure of his love for us. I wrote a very long post to read with a lot of stuff in it, I appreciate that you took the time to read it. I see your faith and I feel its strength and it will see you through a lot of tough times. Just remember that there is a HUGE difference between beliefs and faith. God's LAW as it has been given to you does not represent your faith. Do not confuse the two, lest you become so fundametally attached to the words of law that you forget the inspiration of your faith. about his laws though, i can tell you that he has a way that is right and its not just for some, its for everyone. thats just the way it is. He is a holy God, and He hates wickedness. He gives us a right to choose because love is not love if it is forced upon someone. Review your words very carefully - split a page in two and on one side write the word BELIEF and on the other write FAITH - -- Then write every relevant word beneath one or the other title on the page and ask yourself. Do I serve the LAW or God? Do I have faith in the Law or in God? To men, the Law can only address one thing – the physical manifestation of an act. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.” But how does God witness and judge an individual? 1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." Men can ONLY punish Law breakers if the act of breaking the law has been made visible. Now carefully consider the following verse. Romans 8 3 For what THE LAW could not do in that it was WEAK THROUGH THE FLESH, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, . . Is any man righteous enough to judge and punish anyone who breaks "The Law"? (values – what are your values?) Should a Christian who divorces their spouse despite the Law (as God intended it) be ostracized, forbidden to remarry, condemned or punished by men in any way? Should a fornicator or a gay Christian be ostracized, condemned or punished by men in any way? What are human rights and why is that concept included in our civil laws? Can your neighbors rights be coveted (taken away or denied)? Or does the Law only apply to things of a ‘physical nature’? (what are your values?) In the post I provided about adultery and fornication – it is The Law that is in question. This would be a wonderful case study for you because if you follow it through all the relevant verses in the Bible what you should find is how The Law is manipulated by man. Do not let men manipulate your beliefs by accepting how men define the Law to you. Divorce was never condoned by God or by Jesus. But Moses made an exception that addressed ONLY one specific thing. If a man discovers the woman he has wed is not a virgin because she has fornicated (had sex while a single person) then Moses would grant the divorce. (However, the woman was supposed to be stoned to death – same thing as divorce.) The point is that men have CHANGED what is supposed to be unchangeable – the Law. The words of the bible are not the words that were written, they don’t have the same meaning. With regards to adultery, men have changed the Law because they have interpreted Moses exception criterion “fornication” to mean the same thing as “adultery” – thus a man or woman can divorce their spouse if they have committed adultery. But that is NOT THE LAW of God and that is was Jesus is pointing out to the Pharisees and his disciples. But today Christians have not heeded the words in the bible – instead they heed the words of men who interpret the bible for others. – They have changed the Law, they judge others by their actions and punish – do you have FAITH in that Law? Which do you think God would judge more harshly: 1. You accept the Law as others present it to you and faithfully follow it all your days - even if what you have been told later turns out to be wrong. 2. You turn away from the Law, as others present it to you, to seek the truth for yourself and even if you could never find what you seek, your faith remained unshakable. Do you really believe that the good and perfect God that inspires you, could find fault in your faith or a life-time of carrying it, even if at the end the only truth you know is that faith? |
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The answers to all these questions are truly simple. The Bible is nothing more than the fables of a specific human culture. And that's all there is to it. The only time any problems arise is when people try to claim that the Bible represents the word of God. So the problems are associated solely with the incorrect and false idea that an arbitrary collection of stories that have been labeled 'The Bible" is the word of God. For example you say: "Communication is something I value, apparently God does not because the ancient writings of man 'supposedly influenced by God' can not even be interpreted with consistency." Well, that's only a problem as long as someone holds to the notion that those ancient writings are the 'word of God'. As soon as they let go of that absurdity then it's no longer an issue. This is why I say that the only thing that can possibly be true is that these ancient Hebrew writings cannot possibly be from any all-wise supreme being because they simply aren't all-wise. Period. Therefore they can be the writings of an all-wise entity. It's that simple. The biblical stories cannot be the word of any God. Trying to support that absurd notion is the source of all conflict and contradictions. Let that notion go and there is no longer any problem. It truly is that simple. Abra, with all seriousness I would like to ask you a question. Do you think it's possible for an individual, without any prior experience with a Christian religion, to read the bible and walk away from the experience with a simple belief in a higher power and a better understanding of thier own morality? |
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Do not let men manipulate your beliefs by accepting how men define the Law to you. Divorce was never condoned by God or by Jesus. And don't let a woman manipulate you with deceit either. Especially after I showed the blantant dishonesty in her post. So Red, do you still deny what is actually written? Or do you still think that nobody can see your obvious deception? Matthew 19:7-9 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matthew 5:32 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. |
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Oh sure and Atheist's can't possibly have problems with what our Government is doing including health care?As a regular poster in the politics section I know you are wrong. Now THERE's an authoritative source. LOL! Once again who passed the health care bill?Was it Atheist or Christians?This finger pointing with Christianity as the scape goat is getting old. Well, considering there's only ONE atheist in Congress, I guess Christians will have to take the blame for it. Myself, I KNOW there are two persuasions of Christians when it comes to politics-- there's the Religious Right, whose memebers beat the drum constantly, and there is a pretty silent majority many call the Christian Left. But really, I think I can settle this one pretty quickly-- if Jesus were in Congress, do you _really_ think he'd side with the Religious Right on social welfare issues?? Can you post any truth that churches are buying guns before butter?Churches have bought guns before to get them off the streets and they were destroyed on the spot.Considering the churches run all the food banks and Atheist run none I think you are out of ammo. Wow, talk about a major league distortion! I think the cliche 'guns and butter' is pretty well understood--'guns' means military spending and 'butter' means social welfare programs. And, I think if you check, welfare spending is about 1% of the budget and that churches couldn't possibly handle the load. In fact, wouldn't-- teakwood pews are often the kind of priorities that nose it out. Lastly, your assertion that Atheists 'run none' is not only wrong, it's typical Religious Right bigotry. Here's a list, by NO means totally inclusive of what's out there: Atheist Relief Fund- collected money and supplies for Haiti Earthquake victims Atheists Helping the Homeless- a small group based in Austin, Texas And then there's the heavy hitter, The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Although I'm an Agnostic, I've given time and material to a church group that performs humanitarian work in Haiti. I don't even write it off on my taxes and I could care less who gets the CREDIT-- I only care that the people in need get the BENEFIT. I suspect that's the case for most of the Agnosistics and Atheists I know. YOU wouldn't know this, most likely, because your attitude would put off any Unbelievers from becoming close personal friends (that is a guess, but seems likely.) I really wish Fundies would drop the Holier Than Thou act. -Kerry O. Again, care to speculate how Jesus would come down on the issues of say the war in Iraq and making sure everyone can get healthcare? -Kerry O. |
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Again, care to speculate how Jesus would come down on the issues of say the war in Iraq and making sure everyone can get healthcare? -Kerry O. Keep in mind this is my speculation on your question, I in no way claim to know the thoughts of Jesus... War and killing would be acceptable to save lives. Profiting to heal the sick would probrably disgust Him, there should be no need for healthcare. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sat 11/06/10 03:17 PM
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Abra, with all seriousness I would like to ask you a question. Do you think it's possible for an individual, without any prior experience with a Christian religion, to read the bible and walk away from the experience with a simple belief in a higher power and a better understanding of their own morality? Considering the apparent diversity of human thinking I believe that just about anything is possible in terms of how an specific human might react to something they read. After all, consider the writings of the Abrhamic folklore. Those writings themselves have generated a plethora of various beliefs ranging from Judaism, to Islam, to the many diverse views of Christianity. Moreover, there are those who have read these writings and have come to entirely different conclusions from these writings including conclusions like I hold. The conclusion that these writings are nothing more than the superstitious babble of a sick perverted society is indeed a valid conclusion. It's as valid as any other conclusion. One thing I would like to say on this topic though is the following: How many people are going to read the moral teachings of Jesus, say that they disagree with his moral values and then follow him as though he is "God"? I don't think many people would do that at all. On the contrary, one of the greatest reasons that many Christians attempt to argue that Jesus was "God" is because they think his moral values are obviously sound and good. Of course, doesn't that open up an entire can of worms right there? The first can of worms is opened because the reason these people like the moral values of Jesus so much is because they actually disagree with the moral values that were taught in the Old Testament. And that brings up the all-important question, "Why should God of changed his mind concerning moral values?". The second problem with this approach is the very simple fact that Jesus didn't teach anything that hadn't already been taught and recognized long before he supposedly lived. The moral values of Confucius, Buddha, and many other far more ancient philosophers and spiritualists have been teaching the moral values that Jesus supposedly proposed anyway. So in that sense Jesus didn't having anything new to offer that other humans hadn't already been offerings. For me this was indeed a paramount factor in my thinking as well. When I read the moral values of Jesus, I don't think to might, "Oh I didn't realize that, I better change my ways." That wasn't at all my impression. On the contrary every moral value that has been attributed to Jesus appears to me to basically be common sense. What kind of idiots would actually being reading this stuff and thinking, "Gee, I would have never thought that would be a good way to live". These people who act like Jesus brought some sort of extremely divine knowledge to Earth that somehow exceeds common sense are only exposing the fact that they have no common sense of their own at all. And as I say, if what Jesus taught is common sense, then why didn't the God of the Old Testament exhibit common sense?  So anyone who feels that they need to turn to the Bible to learn common sense is already in a very poor way. Moreover, like I say, they can find the same common sense from many other sources as well, like Buddhism, Confucianism, or even Wicca really. To think that the teaching of Jesus are in any way special is to truly be blind, or simply uneducated in what other philosophies truly offer. So what was your question again? Do you think it's possible for an individual, without any prior experience with a Christian religion, to read the bible and walk away from the experience with a simple belief in a higher power and a better understanding of their own morality? I think it's extremely unlikely. Probably everyone who falls into the rut of Christianity was influenced by the fact that so many people have already fallen for it. Face it, it's been "in-the-face" of humanity for 2000 years. That's what causes people to consider it, not the actual content of the doctrine. |
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In response to davidben1 unnecessary,extraordinarily long post which has to be some sort of record on this site.... I have to say what you posted is some of the most ignorant statements I have ever read in my entire life.What the people believe is what defines a country.It is their beliefs that shape a form a country from the beginning and make it what it is today.It is hardly surprising that when you look at Atheist countries they are almost the opposite of what Christian countries are.Communism is usually the way a Government runs,people have little or no free speech rights,news is censored or banned,freedoms are non existent,charities are non existent. What are the best countries in the world with the most freedom and best way of life?United States,Australia,the UK,Canada.Are these Atheist countries?Are these some other religion?They are Christian and they are Christian by a huge majority.If you would read you history books you would learn that these countries were founded on Christian principles by Christian followers who had Christian beliefs.These countries were not founded on by Atheist beliefs or some other religion. The rest of your message which deals with hate by Christians is still puzzling to me.I think you and others have a big problem telling the difference between the way someone acts and hating people for no reason at all.Of course Christians have morals and of course we are going to speak out against issues that effect us such as homosexuality and other issues.That doesn't mean we hate these people we just don't accept the lifestyle they are living. I have said this many times before and I will say it again.Homosexuals,Muslims,Atheist,and others the Christians disagree with have more freedoms here and other Christian countries then anywhere else in the world.If the homosexuals think they are being racked over the coals by Christian countries I would strongly suggest they try being openly homosexual in Atheist China where it will get you swift death sentience. I found you rant about Obama amusing.Considering Christians make up the majority of the population in this country if the Christians didn't approve of Obama he would get no more than 20% of the vote.Yet he got over 50%.Seems like your logic is looking pretty stupid on that one. The rest of you worthless post claiming Christians are somehow just hiding in a hole waiting for the time to take over and force everyone to convert is totally stupid.I would really like to see some truth in that statement.I would love to see how Christians are saying they want to take over and force people to do anything. Wake up!There are no extremist Christians in America and there never has!The only the the Christians are doing is feeding the poor,operating orphanages,and singing songs on Sunday morning. lol... the sign of any lack of intelligence, is to first believe that anything that does not think as SELF, be the most ignorant in the world, lol... is that suopposed to convince me your words are the opposite of ignorant? hum... no extremist christian in america? so, you wish to exclude christian's from any extremism guilt? lol... there is never a time, that anything that exist, doth not exist in any ONE GROUP. SO YOUR WORDS BUT SHOW EXTREME BIAS IN THEMSELF, WHICH IS WHAT EXTREMISM BE. hello... love to see proof you say? if you would love to see proof, then you would have found proof, lol... am i to believe your post is not extremly slanted to the "self agenda" and self belief? it drips from every word. not working dude. ok, i'll lie... please hold. wow... the accuracy in your post is utterly astounding. lol... unneccessary long post? u mean you deem your own personal wants, as the guide to all that is neccessary? lol... is that not why the post itself said "largest religions" were what needed opposing the most. do you not see, the post was LONG, because I WANTED IT LONG. because it pleases ME! but, i do not ASK, NOR WANT, NOR MOST INSIST, THAT "YOU" PLEASE ME. lol... is a long post NOT OK? dude... you don't HAVE TO READ IT! just lettin ya know, in case you didn't know. of ocurse, a long post espousing all that opposed your BELIEF AND WANTS AS SUPREME AND SPECIALL INTEREST AGENDA, is not neccessary to you, lol... but it was too me. those are my feelings your steppin all over! wa wa wa wa wa wa... no dude, i'm not religous, you can step on any feelings i have, lol... i am not a demander. lol... of course, i know, and understand with total empathy, that the natural inclination of what believe's it's own belief be "of the supreme or divine, shall naturally feel it's own wants should be reveered as divine, somehow as "guide for all"... lol... sorry man, my condolences. sorry to burst the bubble, but that is not the "real world", where ALL words AND ALL BELIEFS, must be taken into account as THE GUIDE FOR ALL. but, then of course, i know in advance, no ONE BELIEF IS DIVINE PERSON, will ever embrace such at first, as that would oppose the SPECIAL INTEREST AGENDA, of a SELF AND SELF GROUP. too bad dude. i shall oppose such forever into eterninty. for that is what create "freedom for all in the beginning and ending". your words are extremly biased to the most extreme degree, in the self favor, and you want me to use them as some good guide of "good". if you demand your belief be the "good" guide for all, then tell me what be "good"? what "GOOD", FOR ALL, DO YOU WANT? hate to break it to ya, but you can't win in your quest to RULE THE WORLD WITH YOUR BELIEF. why. because there are too many different agendas dispersed into humanity itself at this point. THANK FUCCKING GOD. so, which agenda shall i back? well of course, the least accepted, the smallest, as those be the one's that keep freedom for all alive, and balance the power of majority, as these most only but seek EQUAL REPRESENTATION, and not to RULE THE WORLD WITH THEIR OWN BELIEF. of course, i don't expect you to fight for the same, as you only care most about your own belief, and it being DULY ACKNOWLEDGED AND ENDORCED AND HAILED BY ALL AS SURPEME. SORRY, I DON'T NOR EVER WILL, SEE THIS AS A "GOOD THING" FOR HUMANITY. so, carry on... lol... and so the gears of the "religious brain" ticks and tocks, with more malice, and pre disposed bias toward anything NOT LIKE ITSELF, as evidenced in all your words? so what new. i already knew that. lol... and btw... i thought you loved your enemies as a follower and believer in the "good ole book"? damn dude, not feeling the divine love here... please hold for one moment while i embrace my sorrows from your hateful and maliced words against me.  wow... what oh what shall i do to be as smart as you? i have a ignorant idea. post a list of all desired words and behaviour for me to abide by, to be as smart and as "good" as you, and i swear to abide by them. i shall post a list of all things i wish for you to do and speak to be as wise as me. mine shall include but one want of you. your list may include as many as you wish of me. if i ever break one thing in your list, you may call me on it at all times, and i will bow unto you and insist it be my error, and cease to do it. IF, you agree to abide by my ONE WANT, for you. now how's that for compromise? you get as many demands of me as you want, and i get JUST ONE FOR YOU. that siding in your favor. so thats more than fair. then i can please you my lord, and never dissapoint you, so that i may be deemed as equal unto you. that is why self belief as supreme for anything, is damned, but to create human hell for other's, creating the will, and intent, and motive, to control a populous per self wishes alone. just a ignorant rant. hold on, are rants ok? |
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In response to davidben1 unnecessary,extraordinarily long post which has to be some sort of record on this site.... I have to say what you posted is some of the most ignorant statements I have ever read in my entire life.What the people believe is what defines a country.It is their beliefs that shape a form a country from the beginning and make it what it is today.It is hardly surprising that when you look at Atheist countries they are almost the opposite of what Christian countries are.Communism is usually the way a Government runs,people have little or no free speech rights,news is censored or banned,freedoms are non existent,charities are non existent. What are the best countries in the world with the most freedom and best way of life?United States,Australia,the UK,Canada.Are these Atheist countries?Are these some other religion?They are Christian and they are Christian by a huge majority.If you would read you history books you would learn that these countries were founded on Christian principles by Christian followers who had Christian beliefs.These countries were not founded on by Atheist beliefs or some other religion. The rest of your message which deals with hate by Christians is still puzzling to me.I think you and others have a big problem telling the difference between the way someone acts and hating people for no reason at all.Of course Christians have morals and of course we are going to speak out against issues that effect us such as homosexuality and other issues.That doesn't mean we hate these people we just don't accept the lifestyle they are living. I have said this many times before and I will say it again.Homosexuals,Muslims,Atheist,and others the Christians disagree with have more freedoms here and other Christian countries then anywhere else in the world.If the homosexuals think they are being racked over the coals by Christian countries I would strongly suggest they try being openly homosexual in Atheist China where it will get you swift death sentience. I found you rant about Obama amusing.Considering Christians make up the majority of the population in this country if the Christians didn't approve of Obama he would get no more than 20% of the vote.Yet he got over 50%.Seems like your logic is looking pretty stupid on that one. The rest of you worthless post claiming Christians are somehow just hiding in a hole waiting for the time to take over and force everyone to convert is totally stupid.I would really like to see some truth in that statement.I would love to see how Christians are saying they want to take over and force people to do anything. Wake up!There are no extremist Christians in America and there never has!The only the the Christians are doing is feeding the poor,operating orphanages,and singing songs on Sunday morning. lol... the sign of any lack of intelligence, is to first believe that anything that does not think as SELF, be the most ignorant in the world, lol... is that suopposed to convince me your words are the opposite of ignorant? hum... no extremist christian in america? so, you wish to exclude christian's from any extremism guilt? lol... there is never a time, that anything that exist, doth not exist in any ONE GROUP. SO YOUR WORDS BUT SHOW EXTREME BIAS IN THEMSELF, WHICH IS WHAT EXTREMISM BE. hello... love to see proof you say? if you would love to see proof, then you would have found proof, lol... am i to believe your post is not extremly slanted to the "self agenda" and self belief? it drips from every word. not working dude. ok, i'll lie... please hold. wow... the accuracy in your post is utterly astounding. lol... unneccessary long post? u mean you deem your own personal wants, as the guide to all that is neccessary? lol... is that not why the post itself said "largest religions" were what needed opposing the most. do you not see, the post was LONG, because I WANTED IT LONG. because it pleases ME! but, i do not ASK, NOR WANT, NOR MOST INSIST, THAT "YOU" PLEASE ME. lol... is a long post NOT OK? dude... you don't HAVE TO READ IT! just lettin ya know, in case you didn't know. of ocurse, a long post espousing all that opposed your BELIEF AND WANTS AS SUPREME AND SPECIALL INTEREST AGENDA, is not neccessary to you, lol... but it was too me. those are my feelings your steppin all over! wa wa wa wa wa wa... no dude, i'm not religous, you can step on any feelings i have, lol... i am not a demander. lol... of course, i know, and understand with total empathy, that the natural inclination of what believe's it's own belief be "of the supreme or divine, shall naturally feel it's own wants should be reveered as divine, somehow as "guide for all"... lol... sorry man, my condolences. sorry to burst the bubble, but that is not the "real world", where ALL words AND ALL BELIEFS, must be taken into account as THE GUIDE FOR ALL. but, then of course, i know in advance, no ONE BELIEF IS DIVINE PERSON, will ever embrace such at first, as that would oppose the SPECIAL INTEREST AGENDA, of a SELF AND SELF GROUP. too bad dude. i shall oppose such forever into eterninty. for that is what create "freedom for all in the beginning and ending". your words are extremly biased to the most extreme degree, in the self favor, and you want me to use them as some good guide of "good". if you demand your belief be the "good" guide for all, then tell me what be "good"? what "GOOD", FOR ALL, DO YOU WANT? hate to break it to ya, but you can't win in your quest to RULE THE WORLD WITH YOUR BELIEF. why. because there are too many different agendas dispersed into humanity itself at this point. THANK FUCCKING GOD. so, which agenda shall i back? well of course, the least accepted, the smallest, as those be the one's that keep freedom for all alive, and balance the power of majority, as these most only but seek EQUAL REPRESENTATION, and not to RULE THE WORLD WITH THEIR OWN BELIEF. of course, i don't expect you to fight for the same, as you only care most about your own belief, and it being DULY ACKNOWLEDGED AND ENDORCED AND HAILED BY ALL AS SURPEME. SORRY, I DON'T NOR EVER WILL, SEE THIS AS A "GOOD THING" FOR HUMANITY. so, carry on... lol... and so the gears of the "religious brain" ticks and tocks, with more malice, and pre disposed bias toward anything NOT LIKE ITSELF, as evidenced in all your words? so what new. i already knew that. lol... and btw... i thought you loved your enemies as a follower and believer in the "good ole book"? damn dude, not feeling the divine love here... please hold for one moment while i embrace my sorrows from your hateful and maliced words against me. wow... what oh what shall i do to be as smart as you? i have a ignorant idea. post a list of all desired words and behaviour for me to abide by, to be as smart and as "good" as you, and i swear to abide by them. i shall post a list of all things i wish for you to do and speak to be as wise as me. mine shall include but one want of you. your list may include as many as you wish of me. if i ever break one thing in your list, you may call me on it at all times, and i will bow unto you and insist it be my error, and cease to do it. IF, you agree to abide by my ONE WANT, for you. now how's that for compromise? you get as many demands of me as you want, and i get JUST ONE FOR YOU. that siding in your favor. so thats more than fair. then i can please you my lord, and never dissapoint you, so that i may be deemed as equal unto you. that is why self belief as supreme for anything, is damned, but to create human hell for other's, creating the will, and intent, and motive, to control a populous per self wishes alone. just a ignorant rant. hold on, are rants ok? Rants are perfectly OK. Will you offer me the same list? I have but one on mine, for you to quit posting. For all of your "good for all" babel is not good for all. One who insists on "GOOD FOR ALL" should hold other's views and words as equal to oneself, no? Nay? Yes? Yea? Take your own advice and respect your fellow humans. For one who does NOT do what they proclaim has but one word to describe him. Do you know what that word is? I think not...... - scramblin ham |
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In response to davidben1 unnecessary,extraordinarily long post which has to be some sort of record on this site.... I have to say what you posted is some of the most ignorant statements I have ever read in my entire life.What the people believe is what defines a country.It is their beliefs that shape a form a country from the beginning and make it what it is today.It is hardly surprising that when you look at Atheist countries they are almost the opposite of what Christian countries are.Communism is usually the way a Government runs,people have little or no free speech rights,news is censored or banned,freedoms are non existent,charities are non existent. What are the best countries in the world with the most freedom and best way of life?United States,Australia,the UK,Canada.Are these Atheist countries?Are these some other religion?They are Christian and they are Christian by a huge majority.If you would read you history books you would learn that these countries were founded on Christian principles by Christian followers who had Christian beliefs.These countries were not founded on by Atheist beliefs or some other religion. The rest of your message which deals with hate by Christians is still puzzling to me.I think you and others have a big problem telling the difference between the way someone acts and hating people for no reason at all.Of course Christians have morals and of course we are going to speak out against issues that effect us such as homosexuality and other issues.That doesn't mean we hate these people we just don't accept the lifestyle they are living. I have said this many times before and I will say it again.Homosexuals,Muslims,Atheist,and others the Christians disagree with have more freedoms here and other Christian countries then anywhere else in the world.If the homosexuals think they are being racked over the coals by Christian countries I would strongly suggest they try being openly homosexual in Atheist China where it will get you swift death sentience. I found you rant about Obama amusing.Considering Christians make up the majority of the population in this country if the Christians didn't approve of Obama he would get no more than 20% of the vote.Yet he got over 50%.Seems like your logic is looking pretty stupid on that one. The rest of you worthless post claiming Christians are somehow just hiding in a hole waiting for the time to take over and force everyone to convert is totally stupid.I would really like to see some truth in that statement.I would love to see how Christians are saying they want to take over and force people to do anything. Wake up!There are no extremist Christians in America and there never has!The only the the Christians are doing is feeding the poor,operating orphanages,and singing songs on Sunday morning. lol... the sign of any lack of intelligence, is to first believe that anything that does not think as SELF, be the most ignorant in the world, lol... is that suopposed to convince me your words are the opposite of ignorant? hum... no extremist christian in america? so, you wish to exclude christian's from any extremism guilt? lol... there is never a time, that anything that exist, doth not exist in any ONE GROUP. SO YOUR WORDS BUT SHOW EXTREME BIAS IN THEMSELF, WHICH IS WHAT EXTREMISM BE. hello... love to see proof you say? if you would love to see proof, then you would have found proof, lol... am i to believe your post is not extremly slanted to the "self agenda" and self belief? it drips from every word. not working dude. ok, i'll lie... please hold. wow... the accuracy in your post is utterly astounding. lol... unneccessary long post? u mean you deem your own personal wants, as the guide to all that is neccessary? lol... is that not why the post itself said "largest religions" were what needed opposing the most. do you not see, the post was LONG, because I WANTED IT LONG. because it pleases ME! but, i do not ASK, NOR WANT, NOR MOST INSIST, THAT "YOU" PLEASE ME. lol... is a long post NOT OK? dude... you don't HAVE TO READ IT! just lettin ya know, in case you didn't know. of ocurse, a long post espousing all that opposed your BELIEF AND WANTS AS SUPREME AND SPECIALL INTEREST AGENDA, is not neccessary to you, lol... but it was too me. those are my feelings your steppin all over! wa wa wa wa wa wa... no dude, i'm not religous, you can step on any feelings i have, lol... i am not a demander. lol... of course, i know, and understand with total empathy, that the natural inclination of what believe's it's own belief be "of the supreme or divine, shall naturally feel it's own wants should be reveered as divine, somehow as "guide for all"... lol... sorry man, my condolences. sorry to burst the bubble, but that is not the "real world", where ALL words AND ALL BELIEFS, must be taken into account as THE GUIDE FOR ALL. but, then of course, i know in advance, no ONE BELIEF IS DIVINE PERSON, will ever embrace such at first, as that would oppose the SPECIAL INTEREST AGENDA, of a SELF AND SELF GROUP. too bad dude. i shall oppose such forever into eterninty. for that is what create "freedom for all in the beginning and ending". your words are extremly biased to the most extreme degree, in the self favor, and you want me to use them as some good guide of "good". if you demand your belief be the "good" guide for all, then tell me what be "good"? what "GOOD", FOR ALL, DO YOU WANT? hate to break it to ya, but you can't win in your quest to RULE THE WORLD WITH YOUR BELIEF. why. because there are too many different agendas dispersed into humanity itself at this point. THANK FUCCKING GOD. so, which agenda shall i back? well of course, the least accepted, the smallest, as those be the one's that keep freedom for all alive, and balance the power of majority, as these most only but seek EQUAL REPRESENTATION, and not to RULE THE WORLD WITH THEIR OWN BELIEF. of course, i don't expect you to fight for the same, as you only care most about your own belief, and it being DULY ACKNOWLEDGED AND ENDORCED AND HAILED BY ALL AS SURPEME. SORRY, I DON'T NOR EVER WILL, SEE THIS AS A "GOOD THING" FOR HUMANITY. so, carry on... lol... and so the gears of the "religious brain" ticks and tocks, with more malice, and pre disposed bias toward anything NOT LIKE ITSELF, as evidenced in all your words? so what new. i already knew that. lol... and btw... i thought you loved your enemies as a follower and believer in the "good ole book"? damn dude, not feeling the divine love here... please hold for one moment while i embrace my sorrows from your hateful and maliced words against me. wow... what oh what shall i do to be as smart as you? i have a ignorant idea. post a list of all desired words and behaviour for me to abide by, to be as smart and as "good" as you, and i swear to abide by them. i shall post a list of all things i wish for you to do and speak to be as wise as me. mine shall include but one want of you. your list may include as many as you wish of me. if i ever break one thing in your list, you may call me on it at all times, and i will bow unto you and insist it be my error, and cease to do it. IF, you agree to abide by my ONE WANT, for you. now how's that for compromise? you get as many demands of me as you want, and i get JUST ONE FOR YOU. that siding in your favor. so thats more than fair. then i can please you my lord, and never dissapoint you, so that i may be deemed as equal unto you. that is why self belief as supreme for anything, is damned, but to create human hell for other's, creating the will, and intent, and motive, to control a populous per self wishes alone. just a ignorant rant. hold on, are rants ok? Well I personally enjoyed reading your divine wisdom even if it be a mere rant. Sure beats reading the repetitive bigotry and hatred being spewed in the name of a jealous bigoted God who is appeased by blood sacrifices and cannot forgive or love poor souls unless they condone his lust for sadistic violence. Is there truly any wonder that people who worship such a God would in some sense be somewhat like the God they choose to worship? After all, stupid is as stupid does, as Forest Gump always says. |
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Well I personally enjoyed reading your divine wisdom even if it be a mere rant. Sure beats reading the repetitive bigotry and hatred being spewed in the name of a jealous bigoted God who is appeased by blood sacrifices and cannot forgive or love poor souls unless they condone his lust for sadistic violence. Is there truly any wonder that people who worship such a God would in some sense be somewhat like the God they choose to worship? After all, stupid is as stupid does, as Forest Gump always says. Repetitve bigotry??? 
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