from Eastons Bible Dictionary

Salvation
This word is used of the deliverance of the Israelites from the
Egyptians (Ex. 14:13), and of deliverance generally from evil or
danger. In the New Testament it is specially used with reference
to the great deliverance from the guilt and the pollution of sin
wrought out by Jesus Christ, "the great salvation" (Heb. 2:3).
(See REDEMPTION ¯T0003084; REGENERATION ¯T0003091.)


Free Will
–noun
1. free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.
2. Philosophy . the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces

from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/free+will



action

5 a : a thing done

from miriam websters



we have free will to decide what option(action) we will take and we always have options(even if they are undesirable or unreasonable ones)

Jesus act of salvation for me requires me to accept him(if I have the OPTION to do so) to see the Father, our FATHER takes this wondrous show of love seriously enough to look unkindly upon those who would blaspheme or outwardly deny it,,,


so, my understanding is, I have the FREE will in life to choose my path and God has given me a book as a guideline and a history of those types of paths which have pleased AND displeased him, part of this path for me is accepting Jesus as savior and in doing so taking his example and his teachings seriously enough to follow them...

amen!!!

When I hear something like this I completely and fully understand this view. You simply accept that the Biblical writings are indeed the word of a God. Period. Therefore, from your point of view anyone who denies the "Word of God" is indeed rejecting God.

The problem with this is that you have simply accepted that this particular religious myth is true.

For many other people that conclusion is nowhere near apparent, nor is it even sensible. Therefore, from there point of view, to not believe in these teachings can in no way be seen as a "rejection" of God.

The "believers" in these myths then "accuse" the non-believers of "rejecting" the "Word of God". But that's an accusation that makes no sense. And it shouldn't even make any sense to a "believer" because even a believer should be able to comprehend the concept of non-belief. Non-belief is not a refusal to believe, but rather it a genuine and sincere disbelief that these stories have anything to do with any God.

Thus even a "believer" should be able to SEE THIS. And most surely an all-wise, all-intelligent God would clearly be able to see this. This is why a mere non-believe in these stories cannot possibly be considered to be 'rejection' of God. And any all-wise, all-intelligent being would certainly be able to comprehend that, even if the mortal believers do not have the mental capacity to grasp this truth.

So when you say things like,

"our FATHER takes this wondrous show of love seriously enough to look unkindly upon those who would blaspheme or outwardly deny it,,,"

That makes absolutely no sense at all in terms of non-believers.

A non-believer can neither blaspheme this, nor outwardly deny it, because they simply don't believe it in the first place. The only people who could possibly blaspheme it or deny it would be people who actually do believe it but choose to rebel against it for some reason.

It is not, and cannot be "blaspheme" (or a show of disrespect), for a non-believe to both question these stories, and to point to the reasons why they feel they are "absurd". To even suggest that they are "absurd" cannot be seen as "blaspheme" if this view of these stories is indeed how they sincerely see them.

Honesty can never be "blaspheme". What kind of a God would condemn honesty?

Nothing that I say about the bible is 'disrespectful', although it may indeed appear that way to people who accept the bible on pure BLIND FAITH. But people who do that would think that it would be blaspheme to question it at all.

For example, here is perhaps the greatest irony or contradiction in these stories. This is not intended as 'blaspheme' against any "god", but rather it's aimed at stories which I feel must necessarily be false.

In other words, it is my view that these biblical stories themselves are a "blaspheme" against any actual creator (or God) that may indeed exist.

Is God "perfect"?

This is a very important question. Because according to the Bible God is both perfect and extremely flawed. And that's a contradiction.

Let's assume that God is a perfect creator?

Well, let's ask, what would be the "failure rate" of a perfect creator?

A perfect creator would have zero failure. A perfect creator would never fail. The Biblical "God" has an extremely high failure rate.

No what am I speaking of in terms of "failure". Well clearly 'lost souls'.

If the main objective of a creator is to create souls, then every soul that it creates and loses is a failure on the part of the creator. The creator "lost" the object of its work.

The creator would then have a 'failure rate' associate with how many souls it loses based on how many souls it creates.

A perfect creator can never lose a single solitary soul, for to do so would be a 'failure' on the part of the creator.

Therefore the Biblical "God" cannot be a perfect creator because according to the Bible the biblical God loses the vast majority of souls that it creates.

Is there any 'blaspheme' here? Well, if there is, it comes from the Bible. It's the authors of the Bible who are demanding that their creator has a high failure rate.

My only conclusion from this is that since these stories are stories of a clearly imperfect and inept creator (by their own admission), then I reject them as having anything to do with any supposed "All-Perfect" God.

Moreover, these fables claim that their God is 'Perfect' in spite of the obvious fact that it cannot be 'perfect'. Thus they aren't even consistent (i.e. they are logical contradictions to their own claims)

Are my observations 'blaspheme' against "God".

No, most certainly not.

On the contrary, my observations show why these biblical stories cannot be the word or description of any supposed All-Perfect God.

So by the time you get to the so-called "New Testament" and the rumors that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of this original fabled and clearly imperfect God, there already needs to be something wrong with the stories. So Jesus cannot be what the Bible claims.

Again, is this 'blaspheme' against "God", or even against "Jesus"?

No. It's neither. It's simply a recognition that these stories cannot be true as they stand, and therefore thy must either be totally fabricated myths, or gross misunderstands at best.

No blaspheme require. It's just an honest sincere observation. It's HONESTY, and TRUTH. Honesty and truth can never be blaspheme.

Nor can honesty and truth be seen as "turning away from God", unless God itself represents something other than honesty and truth.

WOW! The absurdity of the Poper Papes here is astounding!


If anyone wants to gain a better understanding of what is happening, start here:


http://www.yhwh.com/Thoughts/inerrancy.htm

http://www.thetwowedgesword.com/thejesushoax.htm

http://hell-fact-or-fable.com/

http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html

http://bible-truths.com/kendy2.htm(a lenghty version of the hell hoax)

All of these sites have a plethora of info. Of course I don't expect the non-believing Poper Papes to read them, but here they are nonetheless.

You people, (you know who you are), should really gain some knowledge before you argue for or against the scriptures.

Am I am poper pape?

Thanks for the links, I think I'll stick with the Bible and not silly legalism or conspiracy theories.

i think i understand the point your trying to make but im not to sure so correct me if im wrong. I understand that people have different values but im not talking about mans law here, im talking about Gods which is intended for the entire human race not just believers or unbelievers. if your values dont line up with Gods law then you are in error, not Him. He is perfect and you are not so how can there be fault in His law. Understand that Gods laws and instructions are in place for our own benefit. i keep telling people that He sees things and understands things that we dont. He knows the hidden dangers that lay behind certain activites and behaviors that we dont see. i hate to be so bold but it doesnt matter what your personal values are, if they dont line up with God then they are not right. its just that straight forward. if i missed your point please let me know but Gods word is for the entire world and there are no exceptions.

thank you, this is exactly what ive been trying to explain but i guess im not that well spoken. lol

i agree spider. i think ill stick with my bible too. i got a real funny feeling about this guy and i had it the minute i read his first post. im not going to speak to much on it but God tells us to try the spirit by the spirit and this guy is one of the ones who has partial truth and denies the power thereof.

First of all, that post was addressed to those who used the term "Paper Pope".

Second, if you would actually take the time and do what the Bible says, you would "test everything and hold onto what is true", instead of believing blindly what has been force-fed to many.

Those links do refer to the Bible and there are concordances to verify what is written. Most of those sites will tell you to verify what they say and make up your own mind.



Matthew 15:8-10 (King James Version)

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:


The Bible says that, does it not?
It's about time people start believing the Bible, don't you think?

What I find intriguing is the influence of cultures on spiritual perspectives. Following the historical path of some of the Eastern spiritual views indicates that ruling forces have taken just as much advantage of these belief systems as rulers in the Western hemisphere of monotheistic religiosity.

Yes, the Eastern cultures surely influenced the origination of their belief systems. The cultural differences between East and West still persists in many areas today. Some cultures place the highest value on individuality while others value social conformity.

The Hebrews were social conformists within their own tightly knit communities but they were also individualists of sorts, because they aligned their ‘individuality’ with that of their tightly knit community which often consisted of a social network of extended family.

With the evolution of Christianity, we can still see the influence of the original Hebrew culture. The difference was that the social conformity of the new religion revolved around a concept that became ‘The Church’. Eventually, as The Church expanded into the Western world, the individualist culture was influential in creating the predominantly Individualistic view that most Christians hold. The Church, was simply not capable of replacing the tightly knit social conformity that only occurred because of Hebrew heritage and family ties.

In the Eastern culture, the identity of people was closely aligned with a social perspective, hence the evolution of spiritual beliefs were heavily influenced by that view which allowed the people to tolerate all manner of spiritual adaptation, simply because the social perspective includes respect for all members of the far reaching social network.

SO ABRA – WE'RE CLOSE TO THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE, I hope you're still reading.

While I agree with you that the spiritual beliefs of many of the Eastern cultures is more in tune with my core values, we have to remember that it was these religions and the use of their beliefs, by rulers, that allowed the caste system to persist without resistance.

The beliefs of the most oppressed of people within this type of culture required that they accept their role and placement in the social structure as a consequence of birth.

Their culture prevented individual identity, their rulers created legal barriers preventing mobility between the castes and their religious views prohibited any form of egoism. This combination prevented people from striving to make their life better.

While we may consider their spiritual beliefs quite aesthetic, we are also not viewing them through the perspective of the people to whom they belong.

What this teaches us is that all forms of human spiritual belief systems incapacitate individual to some degree. Whether it affects self-efficacy, intellectual growth or rational judgment, individual potential is diminished. But that’s not the only consequence, perhaps an even greater consequence of such belief systems is that individuals, in mass, are so easily manipulated through their beliefs.

Those are good reasons to advocate for individually constructed belief systems while limiting reliance on ‘organized and rigidly structured’ religious beliefs of the masses.

I'm support your views on this ja 100%.

For your own spirituality you should indeed stick to what calls to you, and don't let anyone else tell you any different.

You don't need to defend your spirituality to anyone. Nor do you need anyone's approval.

For whatever it's worth, I personally recognize your devotion to Jesus to be precisely the same as devotion to God. Therefore, in this sense, you are indeed worshiping God through Jesus as far as I'm concerned.

I recognize and acknowledge this.

However, I realize that you may not be so willing to recognize and acknowledge that I can worship and communicate with the very same God via one or more other archetypal images. This is truly sad, because this prevents us from rejoicing that we both worship the same creator.

None the less, I recognize that we do indeed worship the same creator. So you don't need to convince me of anything.

so, how's the title bouts of the ONE WAY, going on over here...

hum...

oh my...

nobody is winning, lol...

no one point is supreme...

lest some human think and declare itself divine.

oh my, but many declare their truth the ONE TRUTH OF "GOD".

hum...

seems if they really knew without a doubt it was, declaring self divine would be no problem...

for indeed, if self know divine truth, what be the difference between itself and the divine...

same thinking, same entity...

identical then.

but why do these declare they speak for the creator of all humanity...

hum...

what human should heed another brain, as it's own personal guide OF IT'S OWN PERSONAL LIFE'S DIRECTION anyhow...

do these humanoids really want to tell others what to do with their ONE MORTAL EXISTENCE?

that kinda seems fuccked up...

****...

that is fuccked up...

lol...

it seems the sheer tarrogance to demand such, tells the most truth...

I AM YOUR DIVINE GUIDE!

COME HEED ME...

DO AS I SAY!

for real...

wow...

one does just this if it deem itself KNOWS THE ONE TRUTH OF DIVINE, which surely shows no insight of other human's as equal in value to self, AT ALL...

and these claim to love their neighbor as themself.

that would mean consider neighbor brain as equal to self brain would it not?

but these go waaaaaaaaay past that, and say MY BRAIN BE THE GUIDE FOR YOUR BRAIN, AND NOT JUST YOUR, BUT FOR MANY MANY MANY BRAINS...

in fact, GATHER ALL THE BRAINS UNTO ME, FOR I WISH TO GUIDE THEM EACH ONE...

lmfao...

religion hath caused the many in the world to go insane i do believe, for such is an unsane notion, but indeed what is being attempted, if something declare itself KNOWS THE "DIVINE" truth, or WAY, for all other brains and bodies to move and do and speak...

no problem...

uh huh...

there be no mistaking who would have all in the world as a clone of itself, and nothning less will make them happy.

but, this be what the extremist mentalities want, who declare they speak for "god"...

i wonder if all are so wrong, why they were given life by the same creator, and their OWN brain...

oh, but these believe there are TWO CREATORS, that some are made by the "devil", and some by "god", lol...

but i thought only "god" could give or create life...

burn the book, **** it...

it's creating extreme extreme delusions of elf grandeaur...

lol...

oh, but even i would not dare suggest such a thing in reality, lest there was COMMON MUTUAL AGREEMENT OF A MAJORITY, to burn the book, in protest to the unsanity...

perhaps colbert and stewart could both embrace this as helping to restore sanity!

but, these that declare their own truth as surpreme care not about any majority, or of any democratic or equal representaion of all as being free will entitites, or all as free moral agents, as per their own damn book, as these wish to control all other entities...

there no doubt about it...

omg...

who would a thought...

what a mind **** fest...

ps...

thru in the "****" for good measure, to help protect the "rights" of those in society that may use such lauguage, in the fight to keep freedom, and all as free moral agents, except in cases of intentiol bodily harm of course...

perhaps this will help keep them from being burned by the zealots, who no doubt, would jump at the chance to elimminate what oppose their own beliefs...

as what that thinks "god will destroy the unbeliever", would not be decieved by some human that declared itself as "god" to them?

hell, these believe jesus was a god, and he was human?

how could one tell the difference in a human or god?

what if a human was so dynamic, and told them to ready the fires of hell for their fellow man...

it seems hitler pulled off such, using religion, or the persuit of HOW TO SAVE SELF FROM 'EVILS'...

hum...

just a rant...

damn...

ps...

please ignore if any of the following applies when reading...

too long...

wrong verbage...

insensitive to self...

heresy...

blasphemy...

demonic...

satanic...

peace

I absolutely agree with you on this Di. I confess that I'm a die-hard romantic.

When I speak about the Eastern Mystic picture I'm thinking entirely philosophically and esoterically, and not socially-politically on a pragmatic level.

Any and all spiritually can be abused and probably will forever be abused. In fact, even secular social-political-philosophical ideals will, also, almost always inevitability fall victim to the human faults of power, greed and possessiveness.

If everyone became a Mystic tomorrow I'm sure this wouldn't solve the world's problems. Well, of course, just like with all religions and spirituality the mere alignment with a philosophy doesn't imply that everyone is going to both, fully understand the core values, and actually live by them.

Just as many "Christians" fully recognize that many other people who call themselves "Christians" are just wolfs wearing a sheep's label.




Well, if we were discussing this in person, I would offer a quite passionate response to this with energetic disagreement. I can see you point in some areas. And how this would affect specific individual may very well vary greatly. I personally believe that some people have an innate need for romanticism. I know I do.

I've forced myself to see the world as an atheist. It's very difficult for me to do. A truly atheistic world is extremely mundane. In fact, it's necessarily 'spiritual dead'. This may be a concept that you find hard to grasp. But for me it's quite significant. Even if I knew with absolutely certainty that life was a mere passing freak accident. An abnormal 'hiccup' in a sea of quantum soup, I would still prefer to DREAM of something more and even live in the PRETENSE of that DREAM, knowing full well that this is all that it is.

Because as far as I'm concerned, it's the dreams that make life worth living and without dreams we may as well be dead.

I think many people feel this way. Don't take away the dreams or you'll make life so unbearable it won't even be worth living. At least for the romanticists.

I imagine that everyone cannot understand that point of view, but then everyone isn't a romanticist so it's understandable that they wouldn't understand.



Well this can actually be a GOOD thing. This all depends on what they are being 'manipulated' to do.

Just replace the word 'manipulation' with the word 'inspiration' and think of positive 'inspiration' instead of negative 'manipulation'.

Masses that are easily inspired to do great and wonderful things can be truly wonderful.

On the other hand, take away the ability to inspire people toward a common goal and you end up with a bunch of unproductive couch potatoes, or, self-centered individual where no one is working toward a common good for all.

The very things that you object to about spiritually can actually be some of the best qualities of humans (if inspired positively and not manipulated negatively)

It can go either way. I will grant you that much.



Well, I do agree with that. One of the greatest problems with all spiritual philosophies and belief systems is that they almost always fall victim to "rigid organization".

That is a problem, I agree.

That's a pretty good point and one I think all Atheist should examine.

Why don't you just look around the world at the other religions and countries and see what religion is serving them best?Do you think Islam is good with all of it's blood soaked pages of the Quran?You think the people in Atheist China have the best quality of life and are most free because Atheism is the official religion?


Look at all the religions of the World.How many of those countries other than Christian have started World wars and Genocide?How many of them have piss poor human rights records?How many countries care less if their people are starving and dying in the streets?

I think is it crystal clear that the countries with the best quality of life,most freedom,and where the people are most happiest is Christian countries.It was,is,and will always be Christian countries that will bend over backwards to help the sick and poor.It has always been Christian countries that have fought Wars to help countries that have been invaded and over run by blood thirst murders.It is Christian countries that keep this world from being thrown into murder,chaos,and destruction.

I think it is rather incredible Christianity is believed by half of the world by their own free will.With Islam you have no choice.You are born into Islam and you can not choose otherwise.You can not leave Islam.To do so would be a death sentence.


I think if I was a Atheist I would have to take a long hard look at the Worlds religions and see what their belief has gotten them.

********...

bull pooey...

horse dung...

cow patties too...

no!

not the cow patties approach!

lol...

are country is not happy!

we just had a restore sanity march!

many states want/wanted to remove themself from the grip of the land of the free!

and America is happy!

the worst depression in 80 years?

unemployment at all time record highs?

the poor getting poorer and the rich richer?

further in debt than ever?

government owning stocks in private business?

government mandating more "religious moral codes" each day?

politicians that control the fate of all fighting like overgrown kids?

America is happy?

if one live basing it upon ITSELF.

if one seek to prove what it wants to prove to suite it's own BIASED AGENDA FOR CHRISTIANITY, is the only way any could see America as working IN UNITY..

WHICH IS HAPPY!

please...

thats the whole problem!

AMERICA IS NOT CHRISTIAN!

NEVER WAS.

it's just been slowly and increasingly tried to be turned into that!

which is why the country as a whole becomes more unstable more each day.

please...

the first notion to declare America a "christian country", was when the disunity began.

all of the problems in America right now, are all the root issue of NO COMMON PURPOSE, OR NO UNIFIED PERSUIT.

WHICH A MANDATE OF ANY MORAL CODE, OR RELIGION, CREATES.

so we are NOT A CHRISTAIN COUNTRY.

christianity IS ONE OF THE LARGEST CREATORS OF ALL HATE IN AMERICA, AND THE WORLD.

it is a foul "i wish to control other human bodies", to suite myself and my feelings, at any cost mentality.

please...

Well if America is so bad perhaps you can move to China or Ethiopia and tell me how life is going for you a year later.


Can you show me how Christianity is one of the largest creators of Hate in this country?There is only one church I see that is spreading hate and that is Westbourgh.That church is not Christian and you won't find a single supporter outside of it's doors showing support for their cause.Westbourgh is nothing less than a bunch of idiots who hate everyone and everything and are using religion as a excuse to go out in the public to spew it.


As far as this country not being Christian.What a stupid statement.There is something you can find in every town in America no matter how small.That is a Christian church.Christians from the start of this country have always had a huge majority in this country and always will.

Christianity is the life blood of America and it would be dead with out it.From Christianities influence towards blues and country music,to our holidays,to our famous Presidents.From the homeless shelters,charities,orphanages,and feeding the World,Christians are front and center.Christianity has been a huge influence in our nation and around the world and continues to do so today.

What has Atheism done for our nation?

I was trying to explain why it doesn’t work. Let me try a different approach.

The belief is that God is perfect, God is good. God only creates what is good and perfect, as Genesis suggests, It is Good.

To believe that a perfect God could create something that is not perfect doesn’t make sense. In fact that point has been argued relentlessly in these threads as people try to suggest that God created evil. God cannot create evil because God is perfect & good so it seems reasonable to believe that God would “naturally” create only what a perfectly good creator can create – perfect & good.

So God provided an abundant source of ‘perfectly good’ food – Is there any food you don’t like? Is there anything you refuse to eat because you don’t think it’s good? Because God thought it was good.

Thou shall not kill – Gods' Law – it is right, perfect and good.
What does it mean, who or what does it apply to, and in what situations is that Law right, perfect and good? (just for you to think about, I already have)

God destroyed an entire civilization because it was no longer ‘good’. How does a perfect & good creation suddenly become no longer good? Oh yes – the argument of free will.

OUR will is apparently not FREE for us to use because if OUR will does not completely align with Gods Will – his value system allows him to obliterate life, simply because he does not agree with the values he allowed them to choose.

Personally that kind of destruction is not a value I would adopt. I would also not force others to adopt my personal values – each individual is free to find their own. I respect human life too much and understand the difference between cultures & their values, so my placement of values does not seem to match the destructive nature of God.

Still there is the question – if God’s creation was perfect, wouldn’t that creation come equipped with the exact values that God thinks are perfect?

God in his infinite wisdom created the perfect environment for his perfect creations – how perfect were these things?

First the environment contained detriments to his perfect humans – and then he punished the humans when they fell prey to those detriments. I never punished my son for accidents or for an innocent lack of judgment or when the consequences of his actions proved punishment enough.

Oh I know the typical response – God knew the detriment, that’s why he demanded obedience.

But the point is, if the environment was perfect and good in itself, it was not perfect and good for humans.
So either the environment was not created for humans or humans were not created perfect for the environment – there is no other way to view it. Non-the-less, people try to justify it further:

God was testing his creations. Even that logic fails, because a perfect and good creator cannot create beneath it nature.
If God is infinitely wise, all-knowing, perfect and good – wouldn’t God have known if his creation was perfect? So what would be the purpose of testing it?

This is another value I would not be able to incorporate, because testing people is manipulative, underhanded and can have severe consequences.

In the Bible story about the destruction of Sodom – Abraham is more concerned about the injustice which innocent people might suffer in the mass destruction of the city. Surely in a city there would be children, right? So Abraham takes to God to task and questions him. If in all of Sodom even 50 ‘good’ men could be found would he destroy the city? God agrees and says NO he will not destroy the city if 50 good men can be found. And if 40 good men could be found? NO. Abraham continues to diminish the number to 10 good men. God acquiesces and then leaves.

If God really knew how many good men could be found, would he allow this line of questioning? Still there is the question – What did God consider to be a good man?

The people of Sodom were not Hebrews, they had a completely different culture and their cultural values were different than the Hebrews. God gave them free will and upon that free will they built their culture. We have this issue today, should God reward us if we nuke those whose cultures are different?

What lesson is learned by anyone when a whole city, men, women and children, is destroyed because they hold different values from our own?

Perhaps a god that has the power to create at will, does not hold life in the same regard as those who live it. But then we are here and we must depend on a steady flow of open communication. Communication is something I value, apparently God does not because the ancient writings of man 'supposedly influenced by God' can not even be interpreted with consistency.



I just did!



If our benefit and protection was of such great concern to this loving, good, all powerful and perfect creator, then why not simply remove the harmful elements? If free-will is of such great importance then why punish its use? If life is given with only one means to a perfect end then why provide alternative paths?

its just that straight forward.



Perhaps you didn’t miss my point, perhaps I just didn’t make it clear. What I have written is just the tip of a very large ice berg, but the questions and answers are my own – each must ask their own questions but the best place to start is with yourself.

Look around you, ask yourself questions of value - in what way do you value human life? Is the value of life measured it its utility as a means an end or is life an end in itself? Is the value of life in its function or its purpose? Based on the value you give it, how would you behave toward it - all of it in all conceivable situations?

How do you feel about other life – animals, other creatures? What is their value to you, to the environment and how would you behave toward it based on your values?

How do you feel about the environment? What value is in the vegetation, in the water, in the air, not just to you but to every life form that depends on it for survival? How would your behavior reflect the value you place on those things?

No one can ‘give’ you those values and if you try to adopt them from others, your personality and your experiences will eventually give way and your behavior will not match the values you have adopted.

If you choose to believe in the God of your inspiration, do so by utilizing all the talents and all the gifts and the opportunities that your life was given to you to experience and learn from.

THESE ARE NOT EASY assignments but they WILL become more difficult if you attempt to fit your answers into the values that you THINK support your religious beliefs.

Be like Abraham, challenge your faith, not because you don’t believe - but because you do.
Is that a lesson you would have considered when reading that story?

Find out who you are and what you value IN THIS WORLD, because you cannot serve your God anywhere else but here, where you are. You cannot read commandments or bible stories to gain this knowledge of self. You have talent and abilities that are uniquely your own and commitment to your faith means nothing if you don’t discover how to use those talents and abilities, right HERE. Because this is where you were meant to be and for this environment you have been given the necessary tools for the assignment.

The strength of your faith in God, the content of your character and a purpose for your existence cannot be found in the ancient words of men. If you believe that God is perfect and good and that he made you in his image, then have enough faith in yourself to question the meaning of words as men have given them to you.

Do you really believe it so easy to find truth? If it were so easy why would so many claim to have the truth while so few agree? Do you really believe that the good and perfect God that inspires you, could find fault in your faith or a life-time of carrying it, even if at the end the only truth you know is that faith?

if I deny the holocaust, doesnt that mean I dont believe it happened even though I have the literature claiming that it did,,,,?

to be given the opportunity to gain knowledge and to refuse it is denial,, and I do believe those who are given that opportunity and refuse it will not see the Lord

I dont profess to know what will happen to them instead, but I know that noone gets to God but through Jesus (amongst those who have the OPPORTUNITY to know Jesus)

I have looked at Islam, have you? Have you followed its historical course, have you identitified how it has evolved to become a theocratic state? It's all quite interesting and informative too.

I suppose its rather similiar to how people deny that their own relgion has evolved and that the beliefs they hold are no longer the same beliefs of generations past.

But history can be a boring read, especially when that history is so long and the paths of religion encompass such geographic area.

So in the end what we believe is not really a choice made with all the inforamtion, but a matter of what's most readily available.