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| Topic: A question of tolerance... | |
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Volume 1-The Old Testament(the main message is "disobey God and not convert to a Jew"you'll suffer.) Volume 2-The New Testament (main message "if you don't accept Jesus as the messiah then you'll suffer.) Volume 3-The Quran (main message "if you don't obey Allah and convert to islam you'll suffer.) Volume 4-The RKISIT Testament (main message "if you believe in the 3 volumes of the 3 abrahamic religions you're a sucker.) Absolutely incorrect about 1 and 2. Volume 1, It has absolutely nothing to do with being a "jew" or not. Volume 2, This is not true. There is no "suffering" in that exact sense. People either receive the gift of Eternal life, or they die. There is no eternal torture in a ball of fire. You said - "if you don't accept Jesus as the messiah then you'll suffer." And this is not the case. You will just die, period. No suffering, no torture. Revelations 20:14 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death This verse presented was after the resurrection. There is no eternal suffering. There is eternal punishment, which is eternal death. But there is no eternal torture or anything of such. You either receive eternal life or receive with eternal death. It's called free will. It's not God's fault people did that sort of thing. It's man's fault, and the ones involved will have to deal with that at judgement. So what's your point? Would you rather us have been made already programmed robots that purely only obey God? Free will only pertains to an action YOU do. Where was anyone's free will taken away in any of these examples you presented? Free will means we are not puppets, we are not robots, we are not controlled by something or someone. We choose what we do and how we do things. Thus why we will be "judged" on the choices we have made. Explain how any of these examples took anyone's free will away. Where in any of this does it say God "possessed" someone and controled them without their thought in the action(s). Still took no one's free will away. Please explain. God tested no one's faith. God doesn't tempt us. |
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Volume 1-The Old Testament(the main message is "disobey God and not convert to a Jew"you'll suffer.) Volume 2-The New Testament (main message "if you don't accept Jesus as the messiah then you'll suffer.) Volume 3-The Quran (main message "if you don't obey Allah and convert to islam you'll suffer.) Volume 4-The RKISIT Testament (main message "if you believe in the 3 volumes of the 3 abrahamic religions you're a sucker.) Absolutely incorrect about 1 and 2. Volume 1, It has absolutely nothing to do with being a "jew" or not. Volume 2, This is not true. There is no "suffering" in that exact sense. People either receive the gift of Eternal life, or they die. There is no eternal torture in a ball of fire. You said - "if you don't accept Jesus as the messiah then you'll suffer." And this is not the case. You will just die, period. No suffering, no torture. Revelations 20:14 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death This verse presented was after the resurrection. There is no eternal suffering. There is eternal punishment, which is eternal death. But there is no eternal torture or anything of such. You either receive eternal life or receive with eternal death. It's called free will. It's not God's fault people did that sort of thing. It's man's fault, and the ones involved will have to deal with that at judgement. So what's your point? Would you rather us have been made already programmed robots that purely only obey God? Free will only pertains to an action YOU do. Where was anyone's free will taken away in any of these examples you presented? Free will means we are not puppets, we are not robots, we are not controlled by something or someone. We choose what we do and how we do things. Thus why we will be "judged" on the choices we have made. Explain how any of these examples took anyone's free will away. Where in any of this does it say God "possessed" someone and controled them without their thought in the action(s). Still took no one's free will away. Please explain. God tested no one's faith. God doesn't tempt us. |
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Volume 1-The Old Testament(the main message is "disobey God and not convert to a Jew"you'll suffer.) Volume 2-The New Testament (main message "if you don't accept Jesus as the messiah then you'll suffer.) Volume 3-The Quran (main message "if you don't obey Allah and convert to islam you'll suffer.) Volume 4-The RKISIT Testament (main message "if you believe in the 3 volumes of the 3 abrahamic religions you're a sucker.) Absolutely incorrect about 1 and 2. Volume 1, It has absolutely nothing to do with being a "jew" or not. Volume 2, This is not true. There is no "suffering" in that exact sense. People either receive the gift of Eternal life, or they die. There is no eternal torture in a ball of fire. You said - "if you don't accept Jesus as the messiah then you'll suffer." And this is not the case. You will just die, period. No suffering, no torture. Revelations 20:14 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death This verse presented was after the resurrection. There is no eternal suffering. There is eternal punishment, which is eternal death. But there is no eternal torture or anything of such. You either receive eternal life or receive with eternal death. It's called free will. It's not God's fault people did that sort of thing. It's man's fault, and the ones involved will have to deal with that at judgement. So what's your point? Would you rather us have been made already programmed robots that purely only obey God? Free will only pertains to an action YOU do. Where was anyone's free will taken away in any of these examples you presented? Free will means we are not puppets, we are not robots, we are not controlled by something or someone. We choose what we do and how we do things. Thus why we will be "judged" on the choices we have made. Explain how any of these examples took anyone's free will away. Where in any of this does it say God "possessed" someone and controled them without their thought in the action(s). Yes free will does mean you choose what you want. Again, that is what we will be judged on. God telling us to do something or not do something does not take anyone's free will away. For they still have the choice to obey or not. Regardless if their's a punishment for disobedience or anything, you still had the choice to obey or not, thus free will. |
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Volume 1-The Old Testament(the main message is "disobey God and not convert to a Jew"you'll suffer.) Volume 2-The New Testament (main message "if you don't accept Jesus as the messiah then you'll suffer.) Volume 3-The Quran (main message "if you don't obey Allah and convert to islam you'll suffer.) Volume 4-The RKISIT Testament (main message "if you believe in the 3 volumes of the 3 abrahamic religions you're a sucker.) Absolutely incorrect about 1 and 2. Volume 1, It has absolutely nothing to do with being a "jew" or not. Volume 2, This is not true. There is no "suffering" in that exact sense. People either receive the gift of Eternal life, or they die. There is no eternal torture in a ball of fire. You said - "if you don't accept Jesus as the messiah then you'll suffer." And this is not the case. You will just die, period. No suffering, no torture. Revelations 20:14 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death This verse presented was after the resurrection. There is no eternal suffering. There is eternal punishment, which is eternal death. But there is no eternal torture or anything of such. You either receive eternal life or receive with eternal death. It's called free will. It's not God's fault people did that sort of thing. It's man's fault, and the ones involved will have to deal with that at judgement. So what's your point? Would you rather us have been made already programmed robots that purely only obey God? Free will only pertains to an action YOU do. Where was anyone's free will taken away in any of these examples you presented? Free will means we are not puppets, we are not robots, we are not controlled by something or someone. We choose what we do and how we do things. Thus why we will be "judged" on the choices we have made. Explain how any of these examples took anyone's free will away. Where in any of this does it say God "possessed" someone and controled them without their thought in the action(s). Still took no one's free will away. Please explain. God tested no one's faith. God doesn't tempt us. No, what are you talking about? Satan tests/tempts each and everyone of us everyday. There's no game going on or anything. That is all Satan has been reduced to being able to do, is temp us. It is still nevertheless OUR choice to obey God or obey Satan using our free will. Thus again is what we will be judged on. |
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Edited by
RKISIT
on
Sun 04/22/12 09:30 AM
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Cowboy i don't know what version of Jobs story you read but anyways people are punished and suffer for disobeying God rather it be while alive or not.God did punish those who disobeyed him in the old testament his wraith is all in it.This free will everyone uses is to make up for why God hasn't done anything lately.What i mean by lately would be the thousands of years that has passed where he didn't do anything that's been recorded since after the new testament.
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Cowboy i don't know what version of Jobs story you read but anyways people are punished and suffer for disobeying God rather it be while alive or not.God did punish those who disobeyed him in the old testament his wraith is all in it this free will everyone uses is to make up for why God hasn't done anything lately.What i mean by lately would be the thousands of years that has passed where he didn't do anything that's been recorded since after the new testament. Cowboy i don't know what version of Jobs story you read but anyways people are punished and suffer for disobeying God rather it be while alive or not. Not true. The information about Job is from the old testament, old covenant. In the old covenant it was an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. People were punished for their works on Earth. Jesus fulfilled the covenant, completed it. Now we are saved by faith, not works. God hasn't done anything lately God works miracles every day. I'm sorry to hear/see that you do no see these blessings. God hasn't stopped. |
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I think peoples beliefs are their personal business, and that beliefs dont need to be tolerated unless they turn into behavior then I think certain actual behaviors exhibited by an individual may or may not be wise to tolerate,,,, Problem is, if the entire reason you aren't tolerating something is based on religion......then you are stepping into their personal business in effect which you really have no place doing. But again what if the core tenants of a faith are to lie, kill, harm, and do mean things to those NOT of your faith? Christians are annoying but they don't have a holy war on everyone else. Can you tolerate a faith out to either force you to their way or kill you? Im not aware of such a universal faith most FAITHS Im aware of have books with many doctrines that can and have been interpreted many ways depending upon who reads them,,,, you then clearly have not read a Quaran then. Read up on conduct pertaining towards infidels. there is similar conduct in my bible the interpretation lies in whether one perceives it as an absolute instruction/commandment or a specific instruction to specific group for a specific circumstance,,, You are aware the bible is in two parts and that the New testimate was the new contract with God (so to speak, and Jesus never said to lie to people, hurt people, or kill people and Jesus NEVER EVER DECLARED HOLY WAR METAPHORICALLY OR OPENLY ON ANYONE! That is something a lot of people who bash Christianity do not get and Christians seem to not understand. There is no "New Testimate" commanding Islam to live in grace with their fellow man. At least in Jesus's two commandments he did ordain us to walk in grace among one another. That is not the case with Islam. The Quaran is pretty clear how to deal with infidels like me. How can people say the Holy War is Metaphorical when the commands are clearly written? that is not true.. the contexts in which verses are written is important, as most christians should realize out of context reference to verses are used against us all the time.... there are those who interpret the verses on violence as a free pass to aggress against non believers just like there are those who interpret Gods decisions as proof of a violent and vindictive God there are verses in isolation which refer to violence against infidels there are also verses which discourage violence against NON AGGRESSORS (believers or not)... |
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Cowboy i don't know what version of Jobs story you read but anyways people are punished and suffer for disobeying God rather it be while alive or not.God did punish those who disobeyed him in the old testament his wraith is all in it this free will everyone uses is to make up for why God hasn't done anything lately.What i mean by lately would be the thousands of years that has passed where he didn't do anything that's been recorded since after the new testament. Cowboy i don't know what version of Jobs story you read but anyways people are punished and suffer for disobeying God rather it be while alive or not. Not true. The information about Job is from the old testament, old covenant. In the old covenant it was an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. People were punished for their works on Earth. Jesus fulfilled the covenant, completed it. Now we are saved by faith, not works. God hasn't done anything lately God works miracles every day. I'm sorry to hear/see that you do no see these blessings. God hasn't stopped. |
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Cowboy i don't know what version of Jobs story you read but anyways people are punished and suffer for disobeying God rather it be while alive or not.God did punish those who disobeyed him in the old testament his wraith is all in it this free will everyone uses is to make up for why God hasn't done anything lately.What i mean by lately would be the thousands of years that has passed where he didn't do anything that's been recorded since after the new testament. Cowboy i don't know what version of Jobs story you read but anyways people are punished and suffer for disobeying God rather it be while alive or not. Not true. The information about Job is from the old testament, old covenant. In the old covenant it was an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. People were punished for their works on Earth. Jesus fulfilled the covenant, completed it. Now we are saved by faith, not works. God hasn't done anything lately God works miracles every day. I'm sorry to hear/see that you do no see these blessings. God hasn't stopped. Why would the gospels keep going? The scriptures are there for knowledge on our salvation along with very little history of the world. Why would the gospels continue? |
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From my experience there are those who will not tolerate in all walks of life and religion.
And there are those who believe they are tolerating when in reality they are trying to change others to their way. And there are those who are tolerant, or respectful of others. Usually because they believe the good in humanity and trust no matter what it will win out in each person. I prefer this place and stay there as much as I can. |
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indeed, the STUFF each WANTS, salvation for itself from hell, the nice house, the fine cars, the unfat wife, the flattering husband, the adoring boyfriend, the blissful sex, the praise from others, to be recognized as awesome by others, that any or some WANTS, that tempt oneself, not what exist in front of one's eyes within the physical environment, or even within the thoughts of the mind, for these as ALl THOUGHTS, are only describing possibles ind their of what COULD EXIST, never defining what shall exist, without fail...
humans at first choose what they think shall give oneself what it wants, hence find disappointment time and again, never recognizing, the brains only constant truth, be how to choose what be in the best interest of others... just one cent |
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Hehehehehehe
I just read this whole thing through again..... None of you have any concept of tolerance. If I go to hell cause I think different from you.....THANK GOD! The last place I want to be is a place where your hatreds are the right way. Enjoy being holy and virtuous......I would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with you saints. |
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I think peoples beliefs are their personal business, and that beliefs dont need to be tolerated unless they turn into behavior then I think certain actual behaviors exhibited by an individual may or may not be wise to tolerate,,,, Problem is, if the entire reason you aren't tolerating something is based on religion......then you are stepping into their personal business in effect which you really have no place doing. But again what if the core tenants of a faith are to lie, kill, harm, and do mean things to those NOT of your faith? Christians are annoying but they don't have a holy war on everyone else. Can you tolerate a faith out to either force you to their way or kill you? Im not aware of such a universal faith most FAITHS Im aware of have books with many doctrines that can and have been interpreted many ways depending upon who reads them,,,, you then clearly have not read a Quaran then. Read up on conduct pertaining towards infidels. there is similar conduct in my bible the interpretation lies in whether one perceives it as an absolute instruction/commandment or a specific instruction to specific group for a specific circumstance,,, You are aware the bible is in two parts and that the New testimate was the new contract with God (so to speak, and Jesus never said to lie to people, hurt people, or kill people and Jesus NEVER EVER DECLARED HOLY WAR METAPHORICALLY OR OPENLY ON ANYONE! That is something a lot of people who bash Christianity do not get and Christians seem to not understand. There is no "New Testimate" commanding Islam to live in grace with their fellow man. At least in Jesus's two commandments he did ordain us to walk in grace among one another. That is not the case with Islam. The Quaran is pretty clear how to deal with infidels like me. How can people say the Holy War is Metaphorical when the commands are clearly written? Yea, the soldiers in Christianity are just soldiers for conversion. A nuisance and especially irritating when their views become so fundamental that they threaten to create legal avenues through which to make people conform to their religious beliefs. You know, like all that crusades but that was in the 11th – 13th centuries. Today as they take their missionary work to other countries they teach that the bible is so against certain groups of people that they should be shunned and even support laws for punishment by death if their caught being – well being who they are, gay. But that’s in other countries, here those fundamentalists just want to change laws so that women no longer have the right to reproductive choice, and that bullying is ok if there’s a strong religious belief that backs it up, and of course they think that having laws which require men and women to equally paid for equal jobs is absolutely ridiculous and homosexuals who are raising children should not be entitled to all the benefits and legal protections as married couples, even though most of those protections specifically benefit the children. But, I know, that’s all just stemming from the most fundamentalist view… strange however, that there are so many of them that we have to be out in droves to fight against their take over. And fortunately we do not live in a theocracy where what we belief are dictated to us BY LAW…. Yet. Yea, I guess it comes down to how one interprets scripture and formally those beliefs become embedded in the law. Here those fundamentalists are just a nuisance, unless they go to countries and support hate, or when they enshrine their beliefs into our laws, or when they want to bully someone using their religion as a good reason. |
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outside of Jesus being the son of God and sacrificed for sin
I still am not sure I can concede that peoples 'beliefs' can be proven to be in any way strictly the result of a religion religion came from many things that were already cutural beliefs,, I dont know how or why people seperate the two as if religion is a unique root to values or how people believe or write laws,,,, |
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Hehehehehehe I just read this whole thing through again..... None of you have any concept of tolerance. If I go to hell cause I think different from you.....THANK GOD! The last place I want to be is a place where your hatreds are the right way. Enjoy being holy and virtuous......I would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with you saints. T.B. Rich likes this. (Thumbs Up symbol) |
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I think people confuse tolerance with agreement
tolerance: 1.The ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily...: "religious tolerance" tolerate 1.Allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference. IN every day life, most of us tolerate plenty in our own homes, such 'tolerance' is not seen as as much a requirement I am tolerant of smoking in public I am not tolerant of smoking in my home,,,, |
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See i have read the quran and the bible.What gets me is both basically have in it if you don't believe in their beliefs you are worthless and well be punished,rather it be from their God or their followers.It's really that simple no other way to interpret that except for what it is. |
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See i have read the quran and the bible.What gets me is both basically have in it if you don't believe in their beliefs you are worthless and well be punished,rather it be from their God or their followers.It's really that simple no other way to interpret that except for what it is. I'd bet that neither of you can effectively support that claim about the Bible... |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Tue 04/24/12 08:48 AM
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See i have read the quran and the bible.What gets me is both basically have in it if you don't believe in their beliefs you are worthless and well be punished,rather it be from their God or their followers.It's really that simple no other way to interpret that except for what it is. I'd bet that neither of you can effectively support that claim about the Bible... |
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See i have read the quran and the bible.What gets me is both basically have in it if you don't believe in their beliefs you are worthless and well be punished,rather it be from their God or their followers.It's really that simple no other way to interpret that except for what it is. I'd bet that neither of you can effectively support that claim about the Bible... You are free to ignore this then: Jeremiah 8:7-9 New International Version (NIV) 7 Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons, and the dove, the swift and the thrush observe the time of their migration. But my people do not know the requirements of the LORD. 8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? 9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have? |
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