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| Topic: could trump organization be prosecuted under the RICO act? | |
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Edited by
shovelheaddave
on
Tue 06/19/18 06:55 AM
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Passed in 1970, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) is a federal law designed to combat organized crime in the United States.
It allows prosecution and civil penalties for racketeering activity performed as part of an ongoing criminal enterprise,where people commit crimes,conspire to commmit crimes,or cover up crimes as an organization,such as the mafia,street gangs,drug cartels,and other groups of people commiting crimes,conspiring to commit crimes,or cover crimes up,acting on the orders of,or for the benefit of people in an organization. To be classified as an organized crime syndicate,and be prosecuted under the RICO act,all the prosecution has to do is prove that the organization,or the people in it, have conspired to,or commited 2 crimes in a 10 year period from a list of 35 crimes that they use to determine if they are guilty of 'racketeering'. This list includes such crimes as collusion,fraud,bribery,obstruction of justice,witness tampering,money laundering,and various financial and economic crimes,as well as the more serious crimes,such as murder,extortion,kidnapping,and drug crimes. Once an organization has met the requirements necessary to be prosecuted under the RICO act,that means that EVERYBODY that is INVOLVED in it in any way can now be prosecuted the same way as the people who actually commit the crimes,including the people at the top of the organization,whether they are the ones who actually commited the crimes themselves,ordered it done,knowingly allowed it to happen,or profitted from it,or benefitted from it in any way. Considering that there have now been MANY people in the trump organization that have been indicted for crimes,and/or pled guilty to these crimes that the mueller investigation has uncovered [ currently,AT LEAST 17 indictments and 5 guilty pleas,and counting. ], the TRUMP organization has demonstrated in many ways that they engage in this sort of behavior,which basically means that TECHNICALLY,they are a crime syndicate,and are guilty of racketeering,the same as the mafia,and other organizations which have successfully been prosecuted under the RICO act. Do you think that the trump organization should now be prosecuted under the RICO act,since they are an organization that has demonstrated thet they engage in this sort of behavior,and conspire to break the law in an organized way,with knowledge and support from many people in the trump organization,including donald trump? |
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No
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No what are you basing your answer on.... is it actually because of the facts? or is it simply an emotional response,just because you are a trump supporter,and dont want him to be prosecuted for what he has done under the RICO act because you feel it diminshes your opinions? cuz,according to the facts,technically this DOES meet the requirements. or,are you trying to claim that the 17 people in the trump organization who have already been indicted,AND the 5 who have already pleaded guilty to the charges that qualifies this as a racketeering case are innocent? please share your thoughts with us,and how you arrived at your opinion. |
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Passed in 1970, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) is a federal law designed to combat organized crime in the United States. It allows prosecution and civil penalties for racketeering activity performed as part of an ongoing criminal enterprise,where people commit crimes,conspire to commmit crimes,or cover up crimes as an organization,such as the mafia,street gangs,drug cartels,and other groups of people commiting crimes,conspiring to commit crimes,or cover crimes up,acting on the orders of,or for the benefit of people in an organization. To be classified as an organized crime syndicate,and be prosecuted under the RICO act,all the prosecution has to do is prove that the organization,or the people in it, have conspired to,or commited 2 crimes in a 10 year period from a list of 35 crimes that they use to determine if they are guilty of 'racketeering'. This list includes such crimes as collusion,fraud,bribery,obstruction of justice,witness tampering,money laundering,and various financial and economic crimes,as well as the more serious crimes,such as murder,extortion,kidnapping,and drug crimes. Once an organization has met the requirements necessary to be prosecuted under the RICO act,that means that EVERYBODY that is INVOLVED in it in any way can now be prosecuted the same way as the people who actually commit the crimes,including the people at the top of the organization,whether they are the ones who actually commited the crimes themselves,ordered it done,knowingly allowed it to happen,or profitted from it,or benefitted from it in any way. Considering that there have now been MANY people in the trump organization that have been indicted for crimes,and/or pled guilty to these crimes that the mueller investigation has uncovered [ currently,AT LEAST 17 indictments and 5 guilty pleas,and counting. ], the TRUMP organization has demonstrated in many ways that they engage in this sort of behavior,which basically means that TECHNICALLY,they are a crime syndicate,and are guilty of racketeering,the same as the mafia,and other organizations which have successfully been prosecuted under the RICO act. Do you think that the trump organization should now be prosecuted under the RICO act,since they are an organization that has demonstrated thet they engage in this sort of behavior,and conspire to break the law in an organized way,with knowledge and support from many people in the trump organization,including donald trump? We can hope.. Whatever works to take him down and out, before we all end up glowing in the dark. |
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his organization could be charged under RICO, but convicting Donald is a different matter.
Anyone that violates the RICO statutes can be charged, look at the Los Angeles Police department, Major league baseball,Catholic sex abuse cases, Key West police department and of course Trump and his Trump University. Getting a conviction is a different matter . Mueller is on a fishing expedition to make a name for himself In a few years right before the 2020 it be front and center and the people will be pissed off and vote for Trump again as proof they can stick it to the government. |
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We have deleted a few post please stick to the Topic. There is no reason to add the snide remarks about who supports who..
Forum Admin Kristi |
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Any sitting president can't be prosecuted for some criminal act. If Hillary had won, she couldn't be prosecuted for things that happened before the election. Manafort is sitting in jail for things unconnected to the Trump champagne. What Mueller is hoping for, is that Manafort will roll on Trump.
But, for what's coming out of the IG report, I suspect that Mueller may be thinking he's on thin ice, because it looks like all of his investigation team seems to be biased. Since they all expected Hillary to win, They were just trying to cover their behinds, and not get in dutch with the new boss. As I watch this all unfold, I'm reminded of one old saying that's written in stone somewhere- "What goes around, Comes around" |
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the bottom line is that key members of the trump organization have been either indicted,and/or pleaded guilty to more than 2 of the crimes that need to be proven in order for the RICO act to be enforced,such as fraud,obstruction of justice,witness tampering,and money laundering,so it is definitely an option for the prosecution,which could GREATLY expand the scope of their investigation,as well as the punishments that they would then be allowed to sentence the defendants to,if they were found guilty.
and,trump COULD be criminally charged in this case,after he was impeached,and SOME of these crimes,like the ones that his 'charitable foundation' is now being charged with by the state of new york are state level crimes,not federal,so it would also take the option of a pardon by mike pence off of the table,too,since he could only pardon trump for the federal crimes that he has commited. food for thought,isnt it? |
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the bottom line is that key members of the trump organization have been either indicted,and/or pleaded guilty to more than 2 of the crimes that need to be proven in order for the RICO act to be enforced,such as fraud,obstruction of justice,witness tampering,and money laundering,so it is definitely an option for the prosecution,which could GREATLY expand the scope of their investigation,as well as the punishments that they would then be allowed to sentence the defendants to,if they were found guilty. and,trump COULD be criminally charged in this case,after he was impeached,and SOME of these crimes,like the ones that his 'charitable foundation' is now being charged with by the state of new york are state level crimes,not federal,so it would also take the option of a pardon by mike pence off of the table,too,since he could only pardon trump for the federal crimes that he has commited. food for thought,isnt it? So what? There is a big difference between being able to make a RICO case vs a special prosecutor investigating a sitting president , even if they prove that Trump's organization is a syndicate for money laundering or whatever illegal activity they come up with , Trump is a sitting president. Congress would have to impeach him and as much as they would drool over the opportunity I think many of them see it for what it is , a fishing expedition, because even if Mueller is successful proving that is the case, guess who will fall next? Hillary Rodham Clinton and her evil scumbag douch husband one William Jefferson Clinton the 42nd President of the United States. I really dont think the Democrats on the hill wants to open up that can of worms. |
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I'm not seeing this happening.
The thing is, you can't use RICO to go after organizations just because members commit crimes. You have to show that the PURPOSE of the organization is criminal, or that it is inherent to the what the organization does, that crimes be committed. Now I know it's fun to pretend that the particular political group you dislike the most is inherently dedicated to destroying the country, but we all know that that's balderdash. Otherwise, any time someone in a large company did something illegal, the entire company could be taken down and jailed. The mess with Trump and his people, so far as I can see with what's been revealed, is that they collectively or individually are trying to do various LEGAL things, but are entirely callous about whether or not they obey the laws of the land while they are doing it. That wont qualify for RICO prosecution. |
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I'm not seeing this happening. The thing is, you can't use RICO to go after organizations just because members commit crimes. You have to show that the PURPOSE of the organization is criminal, or that it is inherent to the what the organization does, that crimes be committed. Now I know it's fun to pretend that the particular political group you dislike the most is inherently dedicated to destroying the country, but we all know that that's balderdash. Otherwise, any time someone in a large company did something illegal, the entire company could be taken down and jailed. The mess with Trump and his people, so far as I can see with what's been revealed, is that they collectively or individually are trying to do various LEGAL things, but are entirely callous about whether or not they obey the laws of the land while they are doing it. That wont qualify for RICO prosecution. except Igor, RICO has been expanded since the Micheal Milken incident to include a person(s) to be charged with Racketeering who has committed a minimum of 2 acts of the RICO list of 35 crimes,8 state crimes or 25 plus Federal crimes within the 10 year period. And they are trying to go for the criminal part of Trump being the boss, problem is proving a RICO case is going to be difficult . |
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could trump organization be prosecuted under the RICO act? Only if they could prove the trump organization was started, or continued, for the primary purpose of committing crimes. Huge difference between starting an organization whose only purpose is to build shoddy hotels to break down in order to get the insurance money, kickbacks, and difference between materials billed and materials used, and a company that finds it has to bribe foreign officials in order to build a property overseas. Considering that there have now been MANY people in the trump organization that have been indicted for crimes,and/or pled guilty to these crimes That's rather vague. Are they crimes directly related to the operations of the organization performing duties for the "trump organization?" You ever read Three Felonies a Day by Harvey Silverglate? How big, exactly, is the trump organization? Let's say 200 "people" in the "organization" have been indicted for crimes...does the organization consist of 250 people? 25,000? Are the indictments all from when they were actually employees of the organization? Independent contractors? Advisors? Investors? Are they similar or related indictments? Big difference between perjury and murder and many other things. How would this compare to the average "organization" like Trumps? Realistically. Do you think that the trump organization should now be prosecuted under the RICO act, Based on 5 people pleading guilty to vague charges not in the OP? No. they are an organization that has demonstrated thet they engage in this sort of behavior, I don't think you've shown that in any way at all. conspire to break the law in an organized way Based on the information in the OP I don't believe you know what "conspire" means. according to the facts,technically this DOES meet the requirements Only if you don't really understand the requirements. food for thought,isnt it? Thought? No. Pseudo intellectual specious emotional masturbation? Sure. |
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Edited by
shovelheaddave
on
Tue 06/19/18 08:56 PM
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I'm not seeing this happening. The thing is, you can't use RICO to go after organizations just because members commit crimes. You have to show that the PURPOSE of the organization is criminal, or that it is inherent to the what the organization does, that crimes be committed. Now I know it's fun to pretend that the particular political group you dislike the most is inherently dedicated to destroying the country, but we all know that that's balderdash. Otherwise, any time someone in a large company did something illegal, the entire company could be taken down and jailed. The mess with Trump and his people, so far as I can see with what's been revealed, is that they collectively or individually are trying to do various LEGAL things, but are entirely callous about whether or not they obey the laws of the land while they are doing it. That wont qualify for RICO prosecution. it will if they can prove that trump ordered to be done,,or knew about some of these things that were done by his organization for his own personal benefit,and it seems like at least SOME of the things that his organization [such as his his 'charitable organization' which has now officially been charged by the state of new york for multiple cases of fraud,or his fraudulent 'trump university',which the courts have already ruled was fraudulent ] have being accused of doing WOULD fall into that category,not to mention the things that his campaign has been accused of doing,such as collusion,and obstruction of justice. cuz THOSE things WOULD qualify as an organized system to commit offenses that fall under some of the 35 requirement that they only need to prove 2 of to enact RICO. not to mention whatever his associates who have already pleaded guilty to crimes,and crooked lawyer gives the prosecution to save their own skin. WHO KNOWS what dirt THOSE PEOPLE are going to/have already given to mueller?!?!?! but,you can be guaranteed that they DID/WILL give them something,or they wouldnt have gotten such light sentences when they pleaded guilty!! [cuz THAT is how the game is played!!!] |
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Edited by
Lpdon
on
Tue 06/19/18 10:06 PM
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Passed in 1970, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) is a federal law designed to combat organized crime in the United States. It allows prosecution and civil penalties for racketeering activity performed as part of an ongoing criminal enterprise,where people commit crimes,conspire to commmit crimes,or cover up crimes as an organization,such as the mafia,street gangs,drug cartels,and other groups of people commiting crimes,conspiring to commit crimes,or cover crimes up,acting on the orders of,or for the benefit of people in an organization. To be classified as an organized crime syndicate,and be prosecuted under the RICO act,all the prosecution has to do is prove that the organization,or the people in it, have conspired to,or commited 2 crimes in a 10 year period from a list of 35 crimes that they use to determine if they are guilty of 'racketeering'. This list includes such crimes as collusion,fraud,bribery,obstruction of justice,witness tampering,money laundering,and various financial and economic crimes,as well as the more serious crimes,such as murder,extortion,kidnapping,and drug crimes. Once an organization has met the requirements necessary to be prosecuted under the RICO act,that means that EVERYBODY that is INVOLVED in it in any way can now be prosecuted the same way as the people who actually commit the crimes,including the people at the top of the organization,whether they are the ones who actually commited the crimes themselves,ordered it done,knowingly allowed it to happen,or profitted from it,or benefitted from it in any way. Considering that there have now been MANY people in the trump organization that have been indicted for crimes,and/or pled guilty to these crimes that the mueller investigation has uncovered [ currently,AT LEAST 17 indictments and 5 guilty pleas,and counting. ], the TRUMP organization has demonstrated in many ways that they engage in this sort of behavior,which basically means that TECHNICALLY,they are a crime syndicate,and are guilty of racketeering,the same as the mafia,and other organizations which have successfully been prosecuted under the RICO act. Do you think that the trump organization should now be prosecuted under the RICO act,since they are an organization that has demonstrated thet they engage in this sort of behavior,and conspire to break the law in an organized way,with knowledge and support from many people in the trump organization,including donald trump? No RICO case has ever been prosecuted based on a couple of people getting charged, especially on a witch hunt. You need Eye Witness testimony and physical evidence among other things. Plus you have to prove it is a criminal organization. The Mueller investigation has been a biased partisan witch hunt unlike the actual criminal cases they use RICO on. If they could arrest President Trump on RICO because a couple of people who work for him have been charged then they would be able to use the same tactic to bring down the Mafia, Hells Angels, Irish Mob, Crips, Bloods etc. They haven't been able to do what you said in any of those cases. |
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Not to mention that Mueller's top two investigators might end up getting charged. This is a political witch hunt and its disgusting.
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the bottom line is that key members of the trump organization have been either indicted,and/or pleaded guilty to more than 2 of the crimes that need to be proven in order for the RICO act to be enforced,such as fraud,obstruction of justice,witness tampering,and money laundering,so it is definitely an option for the prosecution,which could GREATLY expand the scope of their investigation,as well as the punishments that they would then be allowed to sentence the defendants to,if they were found guilty. and,trump COULD be criminally charged in this case,after he was impeached,and SOME of these crimes,like the ones that his 'charitable foundation' is now being charged with by the state of new york are state level crimes,not federal,so it would also take the option of a pardon by mike pence off of the table,too,since he could only pardon trump for the federal crimes that he has commited. food for thought,isnt it? Ok, do you know how many key members of the Hells Angels have been indicted or pleaded guilty of crimes needed to be proven for RICO and how many times has the whole organization and it's leadership been charged under RICO? Hasn't happened because it doesn't work that way. President Trump will no be impeached. Even if Democrats get a 2/3rd majority of the House and Senate they still need a majority of the Republicans to vote for impeachment and that wont happen. Not to mention A good amount of Democrats wont vote for impeachment and they have already said so, but please keep talking about impeachment it distracts the voters and every time the fringe Democrats talk impeachment it's a boost for Republicans in this election cycle. |
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I'm not seeing this happening. The thing is, you can't use RICO to go after organizations just because members commit crimes. You have to show that the PURPOSE of the organization is criminal, or that it is inherent to the what the organization does, that crimes be committed. Now I know it's fun to pretend that the particular political group you dislike the most is inherently dedicated to destroying the country, but we all know that that's balderdash. Otherwise, any time someone in a large company did something illegal, the entire company could be taken down and jailed. The mess with Trump and his people, so far as I can see with what's been revealed, is that they collectively or individually are trying to do various LEGAL things, but are entirely callous about whether or not they obey the laws of the land while they are doing it. That wont qualify for RICO prosecution. it will if they can prove that trump ordered to be done,,or knew about some of these things that were done by his organization for his own personal benefit,and it seems like at least SOME of the things that his organization [such as his his 'charitable organization' which has now officially been charged by the state of new york for multiple cases of fraud,or his fraudulent 'trump university',which the courts have already ruled was fraudulent ] have being accused of doing WOULD fall into that category,not to mention the things that his campaign has been accused of doing,such as collusion,and obstruction of justice. cuz THOSE things WOULD qualify as an organized system to commit offenses that fall under some of the 35 requirement that they only need to prove 2 of to enact RICO. not to mention whatever his associates who have already pleaded guilty to crimes,and crooked lawyer gives the prosecution to save their own skin. WHO KNOWS what dirt THOSE PEOPLE are going to/have already given to mueller?!?!?! but,you can be guaranteed that they DID/WILL give them something,or they wouldnt have gotten such light sentences when they pleaded guilty!! [cuz THAT is how the game is played!!!] They weren't exactly given light sentences and if they seem light it's because the charge is weak. |
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No RICO case has ever been prosecuted based on a couple of people getting charged, especially on a witch hunt. You need Eye Witness testimony and physical evidence among other things. Plus you have to prove it is a criminal organization. The Mueller investigation has been a biased partisan witch hunt unlike the actual criminal cases they use RICO on. If they could arrest President Trump on RICO because a couple of people who work for him have been charged then they would be able to use the same tactic to bring down the Mafia, Hells Angels, Irish Mob, Crips, Bloods etc. They haven't been able to do what you said in any of those cases. Bingo, enough said. |
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I'm not seeing this happening. The thing is, you can't use RICO to go after organizations just because members commit crimes. You have to show that the PURPOSE of the organization is criminal, or that it is inherent to the what the organization does, that crimes be committed. Now I know it's fun to pretend that the particular political group you dislike the most is inherently dedicated to destroying the country, but we all know that that's balderdash. Otherwise, any time someone in a large company did something illegal, the entire company could be taken down and jailed. The mess with Trump and his people, so far as I can see with what's been revealed, is that they collectively or individually are trying to do various LEGAL things, but are entirely callous about whether or not they obey the laws of the land while they are doing it. That wont qualify for RICO prosecution. it will if they can prove that trump ordered to be done,,or knew about some of these things that were done by his organization for his own personal benefit,and it seems like at least SOME of the things that his organization [such as his his 'charitable organization' which has now officially been charged by the state of new york for multiple cases of fraud,or his fraudulent 'trump university',which the courts have already ruled was fraudulent ] have being accused of doing WOULD fall into that category,not to mention the things that his campaign has been accused of doing,such as collusion,and obstruction of justice. cuz THOSE things WOULD qualify as an organized system to commit offenses that fall under some of the 35 requirement that they only need to prove 2 of to enact RICO. not to mention whatever his associates who have already pleaded guilty to crimes,and crooked lawyer gives the prosecution to save their own skin. WHO KNOWS what dirt THOSE PEOPLE are going to/have already given to mueller?!?!?! but,you can be guaranteed that they DID/WILL give them something,or they wouldnt have gotten such light sentences when they pleaded guilty!! [cuz THAT is how the game is played!!!] They weren't exactly given light sentences and if they seem light it's because the charge is weak. i absolutely LOVE the utter desperation that you are showing with your chain of denials that you just posted!!!  especially about the stuff that you have absolutely no idea about...like exactly WHAT evidence against trump robert mueller has gotten from his investigation,and the witnesses that have already pleaded guilty,and the evidence that his crooked lawyer might give him to keep from spending most of the rest of his life in prison. but,keep telling yourself what ever you need to to make it through the day,cuz RICO is absolutely a possibility if the D.O.J. decides to pursue it,cuz just the evidence against trump's organization that they have talked about on the news would be enough to justify a RICO case!! |
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i absolutely LOVE the utter desperation that you are showing with your chain of denials that you just posted!!! especially about the stuff that you have absolutely no idea about...like exactly WHAT evidence against trump robert mueller has gotten from his investigation,and the witnesses that have already pleaded guilty,and the evidence that his crooked lawyer might give him to keep from spending most of the rest of his life in prison. but,keep telling yourself what ever you need to to make it through the day,cuz RICO is absolutely a possibility if the D.O.J. decides to pursue it,cuz just the evidence against trump's organization that they have talked about on the news would be enough to justify a RICO case!! why dont you tell us what we dont know then? what exactly do you know that we dont know? Ive said this earlier Anyone can be charged under RICO statue today, getting a conviction is another matter. |
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