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Neal Bortz has a good way to prove that no one chooses to be a homosexual. If it's a choice, simply ask a straight person at what point in their life did they deceide to be straight. If one can't deceide to be straight, one can't deceide to be gay, either. And seriously, does anyone really think some teenage boy wakes up one day and says to himself, "Penis! I think I'll try some penis. That's what I should do today. Try some penis."? If the norm is Hetero, then only homosexuals would need to make a choice to change from the norm. So Neal Bortz hasn't thought too deeply on the subject. Actually, I'm thinking you have not thought too hard on this. Your premise is false. The only reason hetero is the "norm" is because it occurs more frequently. Like brown hair over red hair. |
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NOONE is born homosexual or heterosexual as we get older we decide what our preference is If that was true you would probably have a 50%/50% change being born gay or straight much like you have a 50%/50% chance being born male or female.We would also have to assume the animals are in the same scenario.Yet considering a very small minority in this country is gay I find this logic extremely flawed.There has never been any proof anyone was born gay. Everyone is born straight.Nobody is born gay. Proof, there it is....proof, there it is. noone has proven whether people are born this way or not, I personally dont think they are but thats besides the point,, whatever DESIRES or WANTS someone decides to act upon, once they decide to ACT upon some desire or want, they have made a choice noone knows my desires or wants until I share them with them in some way, either through talking or acting in a certain manner,, speech and action are also choices I do understand that we shouldnt treat people unfairly, but I contend that just as 'natural' as it is for someone to choose to have sex with a man or a woman or with noone at at all or with themself,,,,it is 'natural' for some things to be unattractive to us (from physical features to behaviors to speech patterns) and by US , I am including myself,,lol and when something is unattractive to us or unappealing to us it is also natural (in closed circles) to talk about it,,,but none of that would justify then going out and MISTREATING anyone for their choice in behavior or speech,,, Neal Bortz has a good way to prove that no one chooses to be a homosexual. If it's a choice, simply ask a straight person at what point in their life did they deceide to be straight. If one can't deceide to be straight, one can't deceide to be gay, either. And seriously, does anyone really think some teenage boy wakes up one day and says to himself, "Penis! I think I'll try some penis. That's what I should do today. Try some penis."? Not exactly. Sex is not like a menu at a resteurant. You can prefer spaghetti over meatloaf, but if they're out of spaghetti, you can still eat the meatloaf. Not so with sex. Whatever sex you "prefer", that's pretty much all that's gonna do it for you, bisexuals excepted, of course. |
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NOONE is born homosexual or heterosexual as we get older we decide what our preference is If that was true you would probably have a 50%/50% change being born gay or straight much like you have a 50%/50% chance being born male or female.We would also have to assume the animals are in the same scenario.Yet considering a very small minority in this country is gay I find this logic extremely flawed.There has never been any proof anyone was born gay. Everyone is born straight.Nobody is born gay. Proof, there it is....proof, there it is. noone has proven whether people are born this way or not, I personally dont think they are but thats besides the point,, whatever DESIRES or WANTS someone decides to act upon, once they decide to ACT upon some desire or want, they have made a choice noone knows my desires or wants until I share them with them in some way, either through talking or acting in a certain manner,, speech and action are also choices I do understand that we shouldnt treat people unfairly, but I contend that just as 'natural' as it is for someone to choose to have sex with a man or a woman or with noone at at all or with themself,,,,it is 'natural' for some things to be unattractive to us (from physical features to behaviors to speech patterns) and by US , I am including myself,,lol and when something is unattractive to us or unappealing to us it is also natural (in closed circles) to talk about it,,,but none of that would justify then going out and MISTREATING anyone for their choice in behavior or speech,,, Neal Bortz has a good way to prove that no one chooses to be a homosexual. If it's a choice, simply ask a straight person at what point in their life did they deceide to be straight. If one can't deceide to be straight, one can't deceide to be gay, either. And seriously, does anyone really think some teenage boy wakes up one day and says to himself, "Penis! I think I'll try some penis. That's what I should do today. Try some penis."? Excellent point. When I explained it to my children, I told them I wasn't gay because I did not look at a woman and feel sexually attracted to her and never have but there are women who find women sexually attractive and there is nothing wrong with it. I only want you to find someone who loves you and you love them and you treat each other well. My children are all heterosexual but were raised to know that being gay is just as natural as being heterorsexual. So obviously they were born heterosexual. Meaning homosexuality is born to us just the same. Thx. Personally, I don't get what the big deal is. Except, perhaps a whole lotta sexual insecurity. In any case, while I don't believe it is a choice in the slightest, it wouldn't matter to me if it was. |
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wouldn't homosexual sex fall in the catagory of population control? When rules and laws are made it isn't for the beneficiary of one person. It is a benefit for the entire population. Homosexual is against God's law for it isn't beneficiary in the simple fact sexual actions is for creation, creation, and oh yeah creation. Sex is for nothing more then gaining more population and making a family. Homosexuality benefits NOTHING. Not true. How does it benefit the world as a whole? Not individual benefits, but benefits for the entire planet? The same benefits as a heterosexual or bi sexual relationship does. People loving and enjoying their life together, raising children, whatever. All relationships can do the same exact things together. No, there is no creation in homosexual sex, so not the exact benefits of heterosexual sex. Sex is purely for creation. Other use then that it is lust, lustful desires, ect. Well, since homosexuals can't reproduce with their chosen parner at least we know it heterosexuals who are producing the homosexuals. That's one thing that can't be blamed on us...  Yes it can lol, homosexuality is just a choice, a decision. Well like everything else about your religion - that too is an opinion. Wasn't speaking about a religion in specifics with that. Any form of action is a choice, a decision. We don't HAVE to DO anything if we don't wish to. And with that will be judged on. We will be judged on why we did this or that and why we did such an action. It would be so probable, if there were a god or gods, on judgment day god said " I meant for humans to love each other regardless to different sex or same sex and all those who spoke out against homosexuality and bi sexuality, even the writers of the bible went against my wishes and now you all must pay". Can you imagine the shocked faces on that day!!?? It would be more probable that a god would want men and women to love each other no matter what than the other way around. That is why religion is bad for you, it teaches you not to love certain people for certain reasons. That last line is most certainly true. |
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Oh...I dunno. I don't think it's particularly cowardly to use the term agnostic. Some people are genuinely on the fence, as it were. If they're on the fence, then they don't believe in god. If they haven't come to a final decision about believing in god, then they don't believe in god. Or, to put it another way, if I haven't come to a final decision about buying a television, then I haven't bought a television. No matter how on the fence I sincerely am, there is still no new television in my house. And I'm pretty sure there are people who are, in fact, attracted to both sexes. From my experience, it's pretty common among women. Agreed. I would say that the majority of women are bi. Not in a college-girl-drunk type way, but in the way that they actually find other women sexually attractive. Either that or I just got really lucky with my girlfriends. I believe your analogy to be incorrect. I've heard many people express the thought that while they don't believe in God, they also don't NOT believe in God. Seems pretty on the fence to me. |
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 Look at how silly this fable truly is! John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. No one can get to the Father but by Jesus, but no one can get to Jesus buy by the Father.  So clearly humans have no choice in the matter. You can't get to Jesus by choice like the Christians have claimed. Their very own fable rejects this notion. The only thing you can do is wait to be drawn in by the Father. Jesus taught this in other verses as well when he spoke about lost sheep. He said that he would go out looking for his lost sheep, he never suggested that he expects them to come looking for him. Of course, we can't truly say that Jesus taught any of this because we have nothing from Jesus. All we have to go by is these convoluted rumors written by other men. Men who often disagree with each other, and even contradict their very own claims. The mere fact that Jesus did not agree with the teachings of the Torah is really all the evidence that we truly need to conclude that Jesus could not possibly have been the son of the God of Abraham. So we can reject those rumors right off the bat. If we can connect the teachings of Jesus with anything, the closest philosophy that was popular in those day would have been Mahayana Buddhism. Just compare the moral teachings that were attributed to Jesus in the gospels with the moral teachings of Mahayana Buddhism including their concept of a Bodhisattva and it's clear that Jesus was far more likely a Buddhist than he was the demigod of the God of Abraham. It's really that simple. ========================================================== John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. =========================================================== This example isn't an exact example, but it's roughly the same thing. Same I work at Wall Mart. You're looking for a job, thus i suggest wall mart... *the father drawing you in.* So you apply to the job with the manager of wall mart *Jesus Christ*. The owner hires you for the job. If you do your job well you get promoted *heaven*. This is how it works. The father will draw EVERYONE that seeks him first. I tell you of God, that little feeling/thought "well maybe he's right". That is the father speaking to you trying to draw you to him. Right then and there you have the choice to follow the path which leads to our father. So you get on the path... now where do you go? It's ok, you won't get lost Jesus is there to direct you to the way to our father. So...following God and Jesus is like working for Evil Inc...I mean Walmart. Good to know. And... I've sought God. Never found Him. Jesus, on the other hand, was hiding behind the couch the whole time. Crazy long haired hippie...he should stop walkin' on water and start showing with it....I'm just saying...nobody wants to smell your humanity..divinity...whatever... In any case, I'm not thinking "well maybe he's right". sorry dude... Have you really sought God? Have you really truly sought our father? Having no doubt, having no fears, having no second thoughts? Have you really true heartedly sought our father? You don't have to answer these if you do not wish, just asked mainly for you personally to think about. Yes. Yes. No and No and No. Yes. Ok..thx...and wtf? If I had no doubt, fear, or second thoughts, I wouldn't have had to "sought God", as you say. Or I wouldn't have bothered. One of those. To save time, 'cause I know you're gonna ask... I did the whole walk out into the night, stare up into the heavens and pray to God to give me some kind of way to believe in Him thing. Not to mention, going to all kinds of churches, talking to all kinds of people of all kinds of religious faiths. Read the bible, the tora, and various other religious texts from ancient cultures to the modern versions of christianity. So yeah, I'm pretty sure you can safely say I sought God. I have as yet to see any reason to believe there is any such thing as God, gods or goddesses. And pretty much most people who have a "deep and abiding faith" in anything, are lying 2 faced scumbags who have no problem hurting anyone who won't see things their way. And animals. Since animals have no soul and anyone who doesn't agree with their way of thinking are in league w/ the devil anyway, it's just fine to hurt them as much as you want. God is cool like that. So most of "them" think. There are, of course, people of deep and abiding faiths who aren't cruel to animals and mean to anyone different than themselves. But I've found that a vast majority are. In any case, I've sought God and have found Him not. Sorry dude. But did you seek him with an open mind? Or did you have prejudice thoughts in your journey? umm...oi...yes...with tears in my eyes. |
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Ok Obama says it no big deal because, in his words I heard on the news, "we've been there before..." But have we really? That much water in one crater seems pretty hard to miss. And is this not a fantastic find? And even if we have, the technology we have now far surpasses that of the 1960's. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/water-moon-nasa-impact-probe/story?id=11939079 obama is to busy tossing money up in the air to worry about important things that will help us.... Someday we'll go but for now I think we can't afford it? Ya think? Maybe if it were oil....but then we'd have to attack it first. Shoot the moon... funny thing, every dollar spent on space exploration yields 14 more here on Earth. Computers and digital watches are but 2 inventions that came out of the space program. It's quite stupid to think we're saving money by not funding NASA. How do you figure? Sure it creates jobs but adds to debt. Where's the money? Might I point out also that our freaking infrastructure is crumbling? Tell you what, fix the roads and bridges and then you can go to the moon. But we should eventually get off this planet before we completely destroy it...maybe we can send the cons to live on the moon. That'd help... Oh, I found a map of the dark side..and actually it's not always dark...we just never see this. May already be bases on it...lol. Who knows eh?  How do I figure? Are you serious?  Ok sparky, think about computers. Think really hard. Are you thinking about it really hard? Good. Now think of all the things that computers have something to with. It's a lot isn't it? Now think of how many jobs are dependant in any way on computers. It's alot too, isn't it? Now think about the world now if there were no computers. Pretty scary, huh. Now, do you know where computers that use chips came from? That's right! The space program. So, what do you think would've happened to computers if we never had the space program? That's right! Computers would only be owned by governments. They'd be as big as houses and use tubes. And nothing that uses chips would exist, at least not in the way it does now. So now that you know all this, can you imagine that future space programs will yield future technologies? Technologies that may also change the world. That just might solve a few problems here on Earth. Isn't that exciting? Now go eat a cookie and take a nap. Afterward, you can go out and play. 
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I think I can sum up where this thread is heading... Most Christians are misguided by self deluded fools who likewise bought into the BS for many reasons. The church has become what Jesus hated. You cannot sell salvation. You cannot speak for god. GOD speaks for God. There are Christians who live by the Word of Jesus and those who live by Jesus being their savior. The ones living by the word get it. The pray to God only. They do not pray to Jesus. the rest are not smart enough to see the lies they are being blinded by. People think they have heaven to gain if they beat the drum of Church loud enough. People think that by staunchly and blindly following a belief and not asking questions of it that they will get some pass into heaven. It is sad to see so many people who give up their souls to an idea that there is a loving God waiting for them on the other side of death. No one knows what lies on the other side. People are too fuqued up on heaven and you get Islamics out of the deal becasue people want to have order in their lives that the hypocrisy of Organized Christianity robs them of. There is a lot more to life than a book written from a collection of other writings and twisted to fit the dogma of a pseudo-pagan belief system. People that cannot see past their own noses are cursed to remain short sighted all their lives. Likewise wearing cross embellished blinders does not help anyone. All Jesus wanted was for people to actually live good lives above the bestial and instinctual natures of our species. Humans are innately evil becasue we have instincts that drive us harder than our intellectual side can over come. Starve a good man long enough and abuse him and he either will lay down and die or lash out and fight. The story of job is the ultimate tale of a puzzywhipped man if I ever seen one! God handed that man to Lucifer and he got totally punished all to placate God's vanity. So I take it God is above sin too? Frankly why worry about heaven until the time goes to get there? Life is too hard to be blinded to the fact we either chose to live good lives or bad. There is no buying forgiveness. There is no being absolved of our guilt! Do the crime, do the time! Killing the son of God is a crime! I am of the Heritage of the ones who nailed his azz to the tree! Hell, I don't want any part of Jesus's murder! The more I read some of these replies the more it reminds me of watching a couple of 10 year olds.I have to keep believing I am actually talking to adults here and not some immature 5th grader.Yet from what I have been reading I feel like I am at the wrong web site and have been redirected to some elementry school webpage for mentally challenged children. Is this is how you debate I can see why Cowboy is usually the only person who is dealing with you.The rest of us are out there on other sites having logical,thoughtful,productive debates with mature,intellegent,respectful people who don't need to insult us with every other word they speak. As far as us foolish Christians?About the only people who use that term are the Atheist.Christians schools and colleges are constantly outperforming everyone else.Home schooled Christians are also far superior in their knowledge compared to your average high school student.You famous foolish Christians would include nearly all the founding fathers,nearly all of our Presidents,the founders of some of the worlds greatest inventions,and the CEO's and founders of some of Americas most important companies. Famous and intelligent Atheist???You might get 50 then again you might not. You say going to church is what Jesus hated?Wow!!!!Reading about his life,praising his works,and worshiping and singing songs devoted to him is hatred towards Jesus???I would say that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard debating religion.Oh and Andy church is free.You don't have to pay a dime. I do speak for God and I do speak for Jesus because I am telling you exactly what they said,and why they said it.I am a Christian disciple and when I quote bible verses I am speaking the words of God. Every Christian I have ever met believes Jesus is their God and savior.You will not find half and half.It makes no difference if you pray to God or if you pray to Jesus because they are all one in three entities.The father,the son,and the Holy ghost. I can see your lack of biblical knowledge is not only wrong it's embarrassing wrong.Job wasn't a push over he was quite the opposite.Job was a very Holy and faithful man.Satan told God if he killed all of his animals,killed all of his offspring,and left Job broke and homeless Job would deny God and curse God.God allowed Satan to have his way with Job and Satan killed all of his animals,all of his family,and everything else he could do except kill him... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Job All of Job's possessions are destroyed and a 'ruach' (wind/spirit) causes the house of the firstborn to collapse killing all of Job's offspring who were gathered for a feast.[note 1] Job does not curse God after this but instead shaves his head, tears his clothes and says, "Naked I came out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return: Lord has given, and Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of Lord" (Simplified).[4] As Job endures these calamities without reproaching Divine Providence, Satan solicits permission to afflict his person as well, and God says, "Behold, he is in your hand, but don't touch his life." Satan, therefore, smites him with dreadful boils, and Job, seated in ashes, scrapes his skin with broken pottery. His wife prompts him to "curse God, and die" but Job answers, "You speak as one of the foolish speaks. Moreover, shall we receive good from God and shall not receive evil?" Despite everything that happened to Job he never denied or cursed God not once.Satan was dead wrong about Job.Job never did anything Satan claimed he would do.God was so pleased with Job he gave his sons back to him,healed him of his boils,restored his house,and multiplied his animals many times over.It was said Job was so rich and powerful that he was in control of the entire Middle east. There is much.much more to this story which is too long to post here.Job is is my most favorite books of the bible and is loaded with wisdom.I posted some bible verse here... http://www.jesus-passion.com/JOB.htm#Chapter%2030 The Book of Job, Chapter 30 1 But now the younger in time scorn me, whose fathers I would not have set with the dogs of my flock: 2 The strength of whose hands was to me as nothing, and they were thought unworthy of life itself. 3 Barren with want and hunger, who gnawed in the wilderness, disfigured with calamity and misery. 4 And they ate grass, and barks of trees, and the root of junipers was their food. 5 Who snatched up these things out of the valleys, and when they had found any of them, they ran to them with a cry. 6 They dwelt in the desert places of torrents, and in caves of earth, or upon the gravel. 7 They pleased themselves among these kind of things, and counted it delightful to be under the briers. 8 The children of foolish and base men, and not appearing at all upon the earth. 9 Now I am turned into their song, and am become their byword. 10 They abhor me, and flee far from me, and are not afraid to spit in my face. 11 For he hath opened his quiver, and hath afflicted me, and hath put a bridle into my mouth. 12 At the right hand of my rising, my calamities forthwith arose: they have overthrown my feet, and have overwhelmed me with their paths as with waves. 13 They have destroyed my ways, they have lain in wait against me, and they have prevailed, and there was none to help. 14 They have rushed in upon me, as when a wall is broken, and a gate opened, and have rolled themselves down to my miseries. 15 I am brought to nothing: as a wind thou hast taken away my desire: and my prosperity hath passed away like a cloud. 16 And now my soul fadeth within myself, and the days of affliction possess me. 17 In the night my bone is pierced with sorrows: and they that feed upon me, do not sleep. 18 With the multitude of them my garment is consumed, and they have girded me about, as with the collar of my coat. 19 I am compared to dirt, and am likened to embers and ashes. 20 I cry to thee, and thou hearest me not: I stand up, and thou dost not regard me. 21 Thou art changed to be cruel toward me, and in the hardness of thy hand thou art against me. 22 Thou hast lifted me up, and set me as it were upon the wind, and thou hast mightily dashed me. 23 I know that thou wilt deliver me to death, where a house is appointed for every one that liveth. 24 But yet thou stretchest not forth thy hand to their consumption: and if they shall fall down thou wilt save. 25 I wept heretofore for him that was afflicted, and my soul had compassion on the poor. 26 I expected good things, and evils are come upon me: I waited for light, and darkness broke out. 27 My inner parts have boiled without any rest, the days of affliction have prevented me. 28 I went mourning without indignation; I rose up, and cried in the crowd. 29 I was the brother of dragons, and companion of ostriches. 30 My skin is become black upon me, and my bones are dried up with heat. 31 My harp is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of those that weep. You say so much but say so little. on top of that you seem to forget Jesus in his day trashed the temple. He flat out threw a fit and in his violence drove the money changers out of the temple. Jesus viewed the church as a gathering of like minded people anywhere they happened to be. What is the church now? The EXACT same thing Jesus reviled. Money Changers and sellers of salvation. You DARE point a finger and accuse me of being a five year old? nice Ad Hominum attack. REAL MATURE of you. I lost my childhood to the Church thank you! (Not by a molesting priest either!) If there are any children here it is those that resort to such attempts at debasing those of us who make very calculated observations of a topic. Now since I am past your cheap shot show me where Jesus says I MUST be a member of a church to find salvation. And also if I am living a good life what have I got to be saved from? The possibility I may turn evil? OH TOO LATE! I have embraced my dark side as well as my light side. Oh but does accepting something that I may not like as part of me automatic grounds to condemn me to hell? If so who made you my judge? I DARE YOU, I DOUBLE DIP DARE YOU to show me in words I am condemned becasue that will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt people like you will do things against the very scriptures you pound why? instead of leaving the Judgment to God you are trying to find ways of Justifying YOUR opinion about how God will see the matter. So who is immature here now???  On top of that all the paraphrasing you threw at me is utterly meaningless to the matter at hand. Not to come off condescending but there is no message, just a bunch of nifty quotes tossed like salad. Why do you even bother? |
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 Oh have I ever been there  no kidding. |
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Look at how silly this fable truly is! John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. No one can get to the Father but by Jesus, but no one can get to Jesus buy by the Father. So clearly humans have no choice in the matter. You can't get to Jesus by choice like the Christians have claimed. Their very own fable rejects this notion. The only thing you can do is wait to be drawn in by the Father. Jesus taught this in other verses as well when he spoke about lost sheep. He said that he would go out looking for his lost sheep, he never suggested that he expects them to come looking for him. Of course, we can't truly say that Jesus taught any of this because we have nothing from Jesus. All we have to go by is these convoluted rumors written by other men. Men who often disagree with each other, and even contradict their very own claims. The mere fact that Jesus did not agree with the teachings of the Torah is really all the evidence that we truly need to conclude that Jesus could not possibly have been the son of the God of Abraham. So we can reject those rumors right off the bat. If we can connect the teachings of Jesus with anything, the closest philosophy that was popular in those day would have been Mahayana Buddhism. Just compare the moral teachings that were attributed to Jesus in the gospels with the moral teachings of Mahayana Buddhism including their concept of a Bodhisattva and it's clear that Jesus was far more likely a Buddhist than he was the demigod of the God of Abraham. It's really that simple. ========================================================== John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. =========================================================== This example isn't an exact example, but it's roughly the same thing. Same I work at Wall Mart. You're looking for a job, thus i suggest wall mart... *the father drawing you in.* So you apply to the job with the manager of wall mart *Jesus Christ*. The owner hires you for the job. If you do your job well you get promoted *heaven*. This is how it works. The father will draw EVERYONE that seeks him first. I tell you of God, that little feeling/thought "well maybe he's right". That is the father speaking to you trying to draw you to him. Right then and there you have the choice to follow the path which leads to our father. So you get on the path... now where do you go? It's ok, you won't get lost Jesus is there to direct you to the way to our father. So...following God and Jesus is like working for Evil Inc...I mean Walmart. Good to know. And... I've sought God. Never found Him. Jesus, on the other hand, was hiding behind the couch the whole time. Crazy long haired hippie...he should stop walkin' on water and start showing with it....I'm just saying...nobody wants to smell your humanity..divinity...whatever... In any case, I'm not thinking "well maybe he's right". sorry dude... Have you really sought God? Have you really truly sought our father? Having no doubt, having no fears, having no second thoughts? Have you really true heartedly sought our father? You don't have to answer these if you do not wish, just asked mainly for you personally to think about. Recruiting to add more religious nutbags onto the already bloated number of fools who believe that crap. You guys have done enough damage to society already...stop tying to convert people into zombies. Every time you guys worm your way into our government we get results like these guys:    (sorry but it's never too early for XMAS!) Was not trying to recruit anything....... was merely asking a question. yeah. It's the gays that recruit. Haven't you heard? They get toasters and other FABULOUS prizes for it...
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Look at how silly this fable truly is! John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. No one can get to the Father but by Jesus, but no one can get to Jesus buy by the Father. So clearly humans have no choice in the matter. You can't get to Jesus by choice like the Christians have claimed. Their very own fable rejects this notion. The only thing you can do is wait to be drawn in by the Father. Jesus taught this in other verses as well when he spoke about lost sheep. He said that he would go out looking for his lost sheep, he never suggested that he expects them to come looking for him. Of course, we can't truly say that Jesus taught any of this because we have nothing from Jesus. All we have to go by is these convoluted rumors written by other men. Men who often disagree with each other, and even contradict their very own claims. The mere fact that Jesus did not agree with the teachings of the Torah is really all the evidence that we truly need to conclude that Jesus could not possibly have been the son of the God of Abraham. So we can reject those rumors right off the bat. If we can connect the teachings of Jesus with anything, the closest philosophy that was popular in those day would have been Mahayana Buddhism. Just compare the moral teachings that were attributed to Jesus in the gospels with the moral teachings of Mahayana Buddhism including their concept of a Bodhisattva and it's clear that Jesus was far more likely a Buddhist than he was the demigod of the God of Abraham. It's really that simple. ========================================================== John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. =========================================================== This example isn't an exact example, but it's roughly the same thing. Same I work at Wall Mart. You're looking for a job, thus i suggest wall mart... *the father drawing you in.* So you apply to the job with the manager of wall mart *Jesus Christ*. The owner hires you for the job. If you do your job well you get promoted *heaven*. This is how it works. The father will draw EVERYONE that seeks him first. I tell you of God, that little feeling/thought "well maybe he's right". That is the father speaking to you trying to draw you to him. Right then and there you have the choice to follow the path which leads to our father. So you get on the path... now where do you go? It's ok, you won't get lost Jesus is there to direct you to the way to our father. So...following God and Jesus is like working for Evil Inc...I mean Walmart. Good to know. And... I've sought God. Never found Him. Jesus, on the other hand, was hiding behind the couch the whole time. Crazy long haired hippie...he should stop walkin' on water and start showing with it....I'm just saying...nobody wants to smell your humanity..divinity...whatever... In any case, I'm not thinking "well maybe he's right". sorry dude... Have you really sought God? Have you really truly sought our father? Having no doubt, having no fears, having no second thoughts? Have you really true heartedly sought our father? You don't have to answer these if you do not wish, just asked mainly for you personally to think about. Recruiting to add more religious nutbags onto the already bloated number of fools who believe that crap. You guys have done enough damage to society already...stop tying to convert people into zombies. Every time you guys worm your way into our government we get results like these guys: (sorry but it's never too early for XMAS!) umm...you so don't have to worry about me getting converted |
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Look at how silly this fable truly is! John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. No one can get to the Father but by Jesus, but no one can get to Jesus buy by the Father. So clearly humans have no choice in the matter. You can't get to Jesus by choice like the Christians have claimed. Their very own fable rejects this notion. The only thing you can do is wait to be drawn in by the Father. Jesus taught this in other verses as well when he spoke about lost sheep. He said that he would go out looking for his lost sheep, he never suggested that he expects them to come looking for him. Of course, we can't truly say that Jesus taught any of this because we have nothing from Jesus. All we have to go by is these convoluted rumors written by other men. Men who often disagree with each other, and even contradict their very own claims. The mere fact that Jesus did not agree with the teachings of the Torah is really all the evidence that we truly need to conclude that Jesus could not possibly have been the son of the God of Abraham. So we can reject those rumors right off the bat. If we can connect the teachings of Jesus with anything, the closest philosophy that was popular in those day would have been Mahayana Buddhism. Just compare the moral teachings that were attributed to Jesus in the gospels with the moral teachings of Mahayana Buddhism including their concept of a Bodhisattva and it's clear that Jesus was far more likely a Buddhist than he was the demigod of the God of Abraham. It's really that simple. ========================================================== John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. =========================================================== This example isn't an exact example, but it's roughly the same thing. Same I work at Wall Mart. You're looking for a job, thus i suggest wall mart... *the father drawing you in.* So you apply to the job with the manager of wall mart *Jesus Christ*. The owner hires you for the job. If you do your job well you get promoted *heaven*. This is how it works. The father will draw EVERYONE that seeks him first. I tell you of God, that little feeling/thought "well maybe he's right". That is the father speaking to you trying to draw you to him. Right then and there you have the choice to follow the path which leads to our father. So you get on the path... now where do you go? It's ok, you won't get lost Jesus is there to direct you to the way to our father. So...following God and Jesus is like working for Evil Inc...I mean Walmart. Good to know. And... I've sought God. Never found Him. Jesus, on the other hand, was hiding behind the couch the whole time. Crazy long haired hippie...he should stop walkin' on water and start showing with it....I'm just saying...nobody wants to smell your humanity..divinity...whatever... In any case, I'm not thinking "well maybe he's right". sorry dude... Have you really sought God? Have you really truly sought our father? Having no doubt, having no fears, having no second thoughts? Have you really true heartedly sought our father? You don't have to answer these if you do not wish, just asked mainly for you personally to think about. Yes. Yes. No and No and No. Yes. Ok..thx...and wtf? If I had no doubt, fear, or second thoughts, I wouldn't have had to "sought God", as you say. Or I wouldn't have bothered. One of those. To save time, 'cause I know you're gonna ask... I did the whole walk out into the night, stare up into the heavens and pray to God to give me some kind of way to believe in Him thing. Not to mention, going to all kinds of churches, talking to all kinds of people of all kinds of religious faiths. Read the bible, the tora, and various other religious texts from ancient cultures to the modern versions of christianity. So yeah, I'm pretty sure you can safely say I sought God. I have as yet to see any reason to believe there is any such thing as God, gods or goddesses. And pretty much most people who have a "deep and abiding faith" in anything, are lying 2 faced scumbags who have no problem hurting anyone who won't see things their way. And animals. Since animals have no soul and anyone who doesn't agree with their way of thinking are in league w/ the devil anyway, it's just fine to hurt them as much as you want. God is cool like that. So most of "them" think. There are, of course, people of deep and abiding faiths who aren't cruel to animals and mean to anyone different than themselves. But I've found that a vast majority are. In any case, I've sought God and have found Him not. Sorry dude. |
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Top 1 reason why I never try to "convert" anyone.... 1. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. one reason also that I have visited this particular thread less often the subliminal judgements about what is INTELLIGENT and what is not, as an intelligent person myself, border on ridiculous belief and faith have little to do with intelligence, much more to do with experience, and people come to their beliefs through their EXPERIENCES,, plain and simple I cant give anyone else the experiences which have lead to my faith in God and the Bible, and I cant take the experiences of others which have lead them to refute the Bible or deny God this particular thread rarely seems to teach anyone anything, unlike other threads where people might read and learn something they didnt know,,, when it comes to faith, or lack of, most of us tend to have already decided at this point in our life that we know all we need to ... ummm...you do realize how stupid that bible quote is, don't you? It absolves me of any responsibility for my own end fate. If, say, I were to die now, most of you good christians would agree I would not end up in Heaven. At which point, I could absolutely truthfully say, "But 'The Father' never drew me." And since your holy book says no one can come to Jesus unless 'The Father' draws him, this means that God always intended that I die and go to Hell. Which makes God, my supposed creator, pretty much an a-hole, doesn't it? Same thing if God gave YOU experiences that gave you faith, but not me. Or anyone else, for that matter. What you are saying, in effect, is that it's never any humans fault for not having faith in God. I contend that punishing any being for what is not their fault is an evil act. Thanks again for confirming that your God is evil. Fun with logic... Now please, show me where I'm all wrong with some brilliant cognative dissonance. Christians are really good at that. No offense intended. No really, I mean it. I'm just saying... Im not offended, just more proof that people are stubborn in their faith or lack of,,, If I say to you, I cant be a lawyer unless I pass the bar, does that mean it is not my 'fault'(your word, I choose the word 'responsibility') that I am not a lawyer of course to take the verse out of context as if the meaning infers some singular requirement, it makes little sense taken in the CONTEXT of the BIBLE and its teachings, however, it makes perfect sense because the rest of the book tells us which actions, words, choices are pleasing to God (and therefore likely to cause his APPROVAL and blessing) we are responsible for our actions and words, our CHOICES, and though the experiences we are born into our not ours to decide, it is certainly our CHOICE of what we do with them and every experience thereafter ,,,,and those choices lead to more experiences,, and so on so that , because of our choices being individual, we will have individual experiences and interpretations of those experiences which will lead us to our BELIEFS..... uh huh. Cognative dissonance. gotta love it.  its impressive terminology but where is the conflict in my thought process exactly from http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/cognitive_dissonance.htm Cognitive Dissonance Explanations > Theories > Cognitive Dissonance Description | Research | Example | So What? | See also | References Description This is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. This is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. Well..unless you're being condecending...thanks. I do try. Sometimes. Ok...the conflict...the conflict...how shall I put it..... Ah..ok...try this... I make a logic conclusion using nothing but the words quoted from a bible passage. A bible passage that was quoted to answer a question. A quote you agreed with in that context. Then you say it doesn't REALLY mean that. The passage was taken out of context. Which of course doesn't matter unless the context was the previous sentence being "And lo, the next sentence I write doesn't mean what it says." You can't except that because the passage quoted does indeed show that God is an a-hole, which of course is impossible, in your eyes. So, one the one hand you agree that the quoted passage answers the original question. On the other, you claim it doesn't mean what it says. And Of course, if it doesn't mean what it says, it doesn't really answer the original question. 2 conflicting ideas which work just fine, in your head. Cognative Dissonance. Ta da. Christians do this all the time. They have to or they'd go mad w/ all the conflictions in their belief system. |
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Topic:
your worst job
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Yogurt packer in a yogurt factory.
My hands were about 35 degrees while the rest of me was about 95...in about 95% humidity....while wearing a plastic bump cap and plastic coat. The whole place smelled of rotting milk and sweaty human. Every night I left w/ my shoes splashingly filled w/ my own sweat and unable to feel anything in my fingers. I'm pretty sure yogurt factories are designed in hell. I lasted a week. Funny thing, some people had been there for years and thought the job was great. It takes all kinds, I suppose... |
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Look at how silly this fable truly is! John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. No one can get to the Father but by Jesus, but no one can get to Jesus buy by the Father. So clearly humans have no choice in the matter. You can't get to Jesus by choice like the Christians have claimed. Their very own fable rejects this notion. The only thing you can do is wait to be drawn in by the Father. Jesus taught this in other verses as well when he spoke about lost sheep. He said that he would go out looking for his lost sheep, he never suggested that he expects them to come looking for him. Of course, we can't truly say that Jesus taught any of this because we have nothing from Jesus. All we have to go by is these convoluted rumors written by other men. Men who often disagree with each other, and even contradict their very own claims. The mere fact that Jesus did not agree with the teachings of the Torah is really all the evidence that we truly need to conclude that Jesus could not possibly have been the son of the God of Abraham. So we can reject those rumors right off the bat. If we can connect the teachings of Jesus with anything, the closest philosophy that was popular in those day would have been Mahayana Buddhism. Just compare the moral teachings that were attributed to Jesus in the gospels with the moral teachings of Mahayana Buddhism including their concept of a Bodhisattva and it's clear that Jesus was far more likely a Buddhist than he was the demigod of the God of Abraham. It's really that simple. ========================================================== John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. =========================================================== This example isn't an exact example, but it's roughly the same thing. Same I work at Wall Mart. You're looking for a job, thus i suggest wall mart... *the father drawing you in.* So you apply to the job with the manager of wall mart *Jesus Christ*. The owner hires you for the job. If you do your job well you get promoted *heaven*. This is how it works. The father will draw EVERYONE that seeks him first. I tell you of God, that little feeling/thought "well maybe he's right". That is the father speaking to you trying to draw you to him. Right then and there you have the choice to follow the path which leads to our father. So you get on the path... now where do you go? It's ok, you won't get lost Jesus is there to direct you to the way to our father. So...following God and Jesus is like working for Evil Inc...I mean Walmart. Good to know. And... I've sought God. Never found Him. Jesus, on the other hand, was hiding behind the couch the whole time. Crazy long haired hippie...he should stop walkin' on water and start showing with it....I'm just saying...nobody wants to smell your humanity..divinity...whatever... In any case, I'm not thinking "well maybe he's right". sorry dude... |
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Look at how silly this fable truly is! John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. No one can get to the Father but by Jesus, but no one can get to Jesus buy by the Father. So clearly humans have no choice in the matter. You can't get to Jesus by choice like the Christians have claimed. Their very own fable rejects this notion. The only thing you can do is wait to be drawn in by the Father. Jesus taught this in other verses as well when he spoke about lost sheep. He said that he would go out looking for his lost sheep, he never suggested that he expects them to come looking for him. Of course, we can't truly say that Jesus taught any of this because we have nothing from Jesus. All we have to go by is these convoluted rumors written by other men. Men who often disagree with each other, and even contradict their very own claims. The mere fact that Jesus did not agree with the teachings of the Torah is really all the evidence that we truly need to conclude that Jesus could not possibly have been the son of the God of Abraham. So we can reject those rumors right off the bat. If we can connect the teachings of Jesus with anything, the closest philosophy that was popular in those day would have been Mahayana Buddhism. Just compare the moral teachings that were attributed to Jesus in the gospels with the moral teachings of Mahayana Buddhism including their concept of a Bodhisattva and it's clear that Jesus was far more likely a Buddhist than he was the demigod of the God of Abraham. It's really that simple. Which reminds me of a funny joke. What did the Taoist say to the hotdog vender? Make me one with everything. just a bit of levity in an otherwise humorless forum.. STOP THAT! I was instructed here that there is no HUMOUR in religion...and they prove that every day...and the line is: "make me one with all" No. The line is as I wrote it. If you ask a hotdog vender to "make me one with all" he's just gonna look at you funny. |
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Top 1 reason why I never try to "convert" anyone.... 1. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. one reason also that I have visited this particular thread less often the subliminal judgements about what is INTELLIGENT and what is not, as an intelligent person myself, border on ridiculous belief and faith have little to do with intelligence, much more to do with experience, and people come to their beliefs through their EXPERIENCES,, plain and simple I cant give anyone else the experiences which have lead to my faith in God and the Bible, and I cant take the experiences of others which have lead them to refute the Bible or deny God this particular thread rarely seems to teach anyone anything, unlike other threads where people might read and learn something they didnt know,,, when it comes to faith, or lack of, most of us tend to have already decided at this point in our life that we know all we need to ... ummm...you do realize how stupid that bible quote is, don't you? It absolves me of any responsibility for my own end fate. If, say, I were to die now, most of you good christians would agree I would not end up in Heaven. At which point, I could absolutely truthfully say, "But 'The Father' never drew me." And since your holy book says no one can come to Jesus unless 'The Father' draws him, this means that God always intended that I die and go to Hell. Which makes God, my supposed creator, pretty much an a-hole, doesn't it? Same thing if God gave YOU experiences that gave you faith, but not me. Or anyone else, for that matter. What you are saying, in effect, is that it's never any humans fault for not having faith in God. I contend that punishing any being for what is not their fault is an evil act. Thanks again for confirming that your God is evil. Fun with logic... Now please, show me where I'm all wrong with some brilliant cognative dissonance. Christians are really good at that. No offense intended. No really, I mean it. I'm just saying... This is quite a long read, but the author explains in detail the points he's trying to make. http://www.thetwowedgesword.com/thehellhoax.htm yes, it is long. Care to sum it up? |
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By reading your posts through my time on here, who are you to judge what's intelligent or not? And who are you to claim to speak for God?  You have a sick demented book that you claim is the "Word of God". Moreover, you demand that only your interpretations and conclusions about this book are correct. You have twisted every verse of these ancient scriptures into the most hateful statements you possibly can. And it's totally uncalled for. You are proselytizing "Cowboyianity, that has absolutely nothing at all to do with any man (or demigod) named Jesus. You've created your own version of hate. You don't speak for God, and you most certainly don't speak for Jesus. You're just a hateful person on the Internet trying to use religion to support your religious bigotry. Shame on you. This is precisely what this ancient myths of jealous God's cause. They create people like you who judge others in the name of God and condemn them for not accepting YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS of the mythological God that YOU CREATE. You've created your own monster God. Kinda laying it on a little thick, aren't you? Yeah, christianity is crap and hateful ect ect ect, but not every christian is so. I really don't think Cowboy is a bad person. He may be confused and ignorant of reality, but evil? No, I don't think so. Give him a break. He's only doing what he feels is right and I've not seen him once belittle anyone else. How many of us can say that about ourselves? I agree regarding Cowboy. I actually admire his heart and his spirit quite a bit. I would love to get back to the youthful faith and innocence he emits,,, Yeah....he really is cute, just like a little kid...  But I'm thinking at some point, he should start growing up a bit... Just my opinion... I think he is young, but not a kid. I also think being grown has to do with being responsible for oneself and contributing to the world around you, which I dont know him well enough to say that he is/does or not.... What does age have to do with being a kid?? I'm a kid and I'm in my 40's. I'm just not a kid ALL THE TIME. |
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Top 1 reason why I never try to "convert" anyone.... 1. John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. one reason also that I have visited this particular thread less often the subliminal judgements about what is INTELLIGENT and what is not, as an intelligent person myself, border on ridiculous belief and faith have little to do with intelligence, much more to do with experience, and people come to their beliefs through their EXPERIENCES,, plain and simple I cant give anyone else the experiences which have lead to my faith in God and the Bible, and I cant take the experiences of others which have lead them to refute the Bible or deny God this particular thread rarely seems to teach anyone anything, unlike other threads where people might read and learn something they didnt know,,, when it comes to faith, or lack of, most of us tend to have already decided at this point in our life that we know all we need to ... ummm...you do realize how stupid that bible quote is, don't you? It absolves me of any responsibility for my own end fate. If, say, I were to die now, most of you good christians would agree I would not end up in Heaven. At which point, I could absolutely truthfully say, "But 'The Father' never drew me." And since your holy book says no one can come to Jesus unless 'The Father' draws him, this means that God always intended that I die and go to Hell. Which makes God, my supposed creator, pretty much an a-hole, doesn't it? Same thing if God gave YOU experiences that gave you faith, but not me. Or anyone else, for that matter. What you are saying, in effect, is that it's never any humans fault for not having faith in God. I contend that punishing any being for what is not their fault is an evil act. Thanks again for confirming that your God is evil. Fun with logic... Now please, show me where I'm all wrong with some brilliant cognative dissonance. Christians are really good at that. No offense intended. No really, I mean it. I'm just saying... Im not offended, just more proof that people are stubborn in their faith or lack of,,, If I say to you, I cant be a lawyer unless I pass the bar, does that mean it is not my 'fault'(your word, I choose the word 'responsibility') that I am not a lawyer of course to take the verse out of context as if the meaning infers some singular requirement, it makes little sense taken in the CONTEXT of the BIBLE and its teachings, however, it makes perfect sense because the rest of the book tells us which actions, words, choices are pleasing to God (and therefore likely to cause his APPROVAL and blessing) we are responsible for our actions and words, our CHOICES, and though the experiences we are born into our not ours to decide, it is certainly our CHOICE of what we do with them and every experience thereafter ,,,,and those choices lead to more experiences,, and so on so that , because of our choices being individual, we will have individual experiences and interpretations of those experiences which will lead us to our BELIEFS..... uh huh. Cognative dissonance. gotta love it.
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Ok Obama says it no big deal because, in his words I heard on the news, "we've been there before..." But have we really? That much water in one crater seems pretty hard to miss. And is this not a fantastic find? And even if we have, the technology we have now far surpasses that of the 1960's. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/water-moon-nasa-impact-probe/story?id=11939079 obama is to busy tossing money up in the air to worry about important things that will help us.... Someday we'll go but for now I think we can't afford it? Ya think? Maybe if it were oil....but then we'd have to attack it first. Shoot the moon... funny thing, every dollar spent on space exploration yields 14 more here on Earth. Computers and digital watches are but 2 inventions that came out of the space program. It's quite stupid to think we're saving money by not funding NASA. |
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