From a current officer to a future one - good luck, have fun and be prepared for a lot of bruises in the takedown class....

Ummm...i think everyone agrees that he deserves to keep the money. I said multiple times that i was in no way saying that he should have to pay it back. What i am saying is that there is more than one side to everything, no matter how strongly YOU feel about it.

The soldiers are split - but in my personal experience, there is a very specific type of soldier that is "anti-war". He is a white male, 18 - 20 years of age. His mother did not want him to join, but he wanted to be "tough". Then he got there and realized there is no glamour - he realized it's hot, dirty and that not all female soldiers are dying to sleep with him like he thought they would. He calls home and Mom proceeds to tell him all the things that are "not fair". He gets off the phone and passes it along.

I am in no way saying this is the rule, nor am i saying that everything is "Mom's fault". However, the truth is that i found relatively few women and even fewer officers and senior enlisted who didn't believe in the cause.

Haha - i know, don't you?

It is 70 degrees right this second in Waco, TX

In my opinion - absolutely not. And that sucks. I would love to be able to say that i would readily trust every soldier i served with with my life, but that would be a lie. People who join strictly for the money generally make for lousy soldiers. I can see using the bonus to tip the scales on which MOS you choose, assuming you are stuck between a few. But it should not be used to make the decision on joining in the first place. I don't think bonuses should be offered for first-timers for just that reason. Pride is not something that is bought. You either have it or you don't. And if you don't - stay home.

It is a question and should be debated because not everyone sees things the exact same way. Even my pro-war, pro-Bush, pro-ass-kicking self likes a good debate. Nothing wrong with some friendly opinion-exchanging.

I agree with everyone to a point. However...

First of all, i think it is damn sad that bonuses are even necessary to get people to enlist. My daddy did 22 years and never got a bonus. As a nation of sissies, they are now required. I would have joined and done everything the same, bonus or not. I did it for the pride, not the cookies.

Secondly, i'm assuming this fellow was medically discharged. He didn't fulfill his contract. The Army is a business, an employer. Again, i'm not saying i agree that he should have to pay it back (and let's not kid ourselves, they are never going to actually make him do it). But a contract is a contract. We are all adults and fully aware that we will possibly be injured or killed when we sign that dotted line.

I'm not real sure what Fanta is driving at with his Shake-N-Bake American comment, but i will assume it was not directed at me because i have never given an opinion on these forums regarding that subject.

I am the daughter of a solider, the ex-wife of a current soldier (who is rapidly approaching his third deployment), the best friend of a current National Guard soldier (who is in the middle of deployment number 2), a veteran of Iraq myself and a current police officer. I believe in protecting those who cannot protect themselves and fighting when fighting is necessary. I also believe that the public likes drama and to believe that the "evil government", be it federal or local, is out to get them. You don't hear the good stories, only the bad.

Bonuses depend primarily on the MOS (military occupation specialty - the job, basically). The bonus on the original contract is generally higher than any other time. Once you hit SSG (E-6), the bonus is pretty much nil, because they figure they have you in their clutches and you're a lifer.

I'm not saying i necessarily think that the bonuses SHOULD be taken back - i'm just saying that i can see the logic. Even tho my bonus was damn nice to have, i still think they are WAY too high. The country just can't afford that. I also think that ridiculously high bonuses take away a little from the warm and fuzzy feelings you get from serving your country well - sure i did it, but i was also paid a bundle to do it, you know?

At the risk of inciting a riot, i am a former soldier and the thing is that a bonus is just that - a bonus, extra. Everyone is complaining about the money spent on the war, but at the same time, wanting soldiers to be paid a ton of money, even if they can't fulfill their contract. If you signed a contract with a roofer and he got injured while doing something heroic, say, saving a child in a fire, would you still pay him, even tho he didn't finish your roof? Nope, you wouldn't. Maybe the same logic applies.

I'm not gonna comment on the police thing, because i am the police. But totage, i appreciate your use of the word "pop". That's what i call it too.

I'd try to mack on you but i think i might one of those shallow girls you speak of....

Welcome anyway!

Kids! Stop fighting over me or i will turn this car around....don't make me come back there!!

Man, i love you chatwin!

I don't think an engagement is actually official until other people know....

I'm impressed, chatwin. It only took you 22 minutes to get around to saying this....

Donna - i am in love with you. That's exactly what i was thinking...

chatwin - how did i know you would respond to this one.....?

Nothing like the subject of war to bring out the claws! I would be VERY interested to hear how Saddam could have been dealt with "faster and more silently". You can't negotiate with pure evil. Who cares how he got in power? Whether or not we helped him get there is irrelevant - he abused it in a way no human should ever do. The things he did to his very own people are...unthinkable. Don't we, the rest of the world, have any obligation to help those who cannot help themselves? I'm making a point of ignoring the WMD comments because we will never agree on that. But surely no one agrees with the way he treated those people.

This entire conversation is the reason why some people hate the phrase "i love you". It makes things too complicated. There are very few statements you can make to someone else that would provoke this kind of deliberation and conversation. I wouldn't worry so much about SAYING it, just be sure you are DOING it.