Ram, just for you - please explain what part of the code 501C3 is
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To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code,
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to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it
may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political
candidates.
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as
charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3),
other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to
receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section
170.
The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable,
religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety,
fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and the
preventing cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used
in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor,
the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion;
advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public
buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government;
lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice and
discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law; and
combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.

And guess what, here's an add from a company that will guarantee you get
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Jessie, I am glad to see you took an active part in getting your
children back on line with the education they needed help with. Your
situation shows how Home schooling should be addressed in certain
situations, you took an active part when it was necessary and as a
result did what the school system was unable to do.

I can only hope I would be able to spend the time if a similar situation
occurred. As I said earlier I have no children of my own, and If I ever
do they will be given as much as necessary to insure they recieve a
Proper education.

Now back to the topic of religion in school.

As I and others specified earlier no one religion should be Taught in
school. My main point is how the word God, used in the Pledge of
Allegiance, has been the main reason for the Pledge being removed from
being said in schools. Claims that to say the Pledge of Allegiance is
supporting a particular religion. I say BS!!!

Most religions believe in God of one sort or another. Whether it be
Zeus, or any other Diety of religious afiliations. Why is it that
because the word God is used people take offense to it? I don't take
offense to jewish friends and the prayers they may use, or of Islamics
who Pray at the end of the day. I don't take offense at the Lords prayer
either.

I can understand why some people would take offense to being forced to
honor the Bible in court if they didn't believe in it. I can understand
many people taking offense to many different things. My question is why
is it so offensive that the word God is used in the Pledge of
allegiance, and on the currency we use?

As I said earlier in one of my posts I feel God is a symbol of Morality
and in as much the few wanting the word removed are trying to be the
Bully of the yard. They are trying to change things to thier liking, and
everyone else is supposed to have to deal with it. This point has
nothing to do with my religious beliefs, it is a point of contention
that these few Bullies are making everyone do what they want them to do.

I understand if an athiest was forced to believe in God they would have
a right to be mad. Did anyone make them Say the word God? I see and hear
athiests here and other places use the word God on a regular basis, yet
they want to take offense that it is on our currency? Sounds to me like
hypocrisy at its best. They will argue till the cows come home that
there is no god and use the word God on a regular basis, yet feel it is
offensive that it is on our currency or in the pledge of allegiance.

Give me a break, This peom is as others put it Biggoted, hypocritical,
and prejudiced from the word go. I feel it shows exactly the same as
those who fight so hard to take my right to say a prayer with others in
my work place. There are penalties for having more than one person
saying a prayer in more places than you can begin to imagine. These
Penalties were instituted because one person complained and whined that
hey FELT it was being Forced on them.

Just as we are discussing finer points of this poem it has allowed us to
see how others feel. Do you think we could do this in real life face to
face in the workplace? No I don't think so. Someone will sue the Company
because they will try and prove the company is pushing a belief on them.
How about the supermarket? I don't think you could do it for long, the
manager would ask us to leave and discuss it elsewhere because an
employee might take offense to the discussion and sue the company for
stress and anxiety because they are not allowed to discuss it so why
should customers be able too?


My point is allow me my beliefs and don't try to take away something
that has been part of society for decades, learn to be tolerant and
allow me the same courtesies you are demanding. I work with people who
complain all the time in my field, I am dealing with complainers/whiners
all the time, yet do they think about some of the abuse I am put
through? I don't think so, for the most part those who complain the most
are the ones who want the most attention. They get it most of the time
too. You ask why? Because people are tired of listening to them whine
its irritating, its abusive and most of all its rude. The old addage of
if you don't like it do something about it is the whiners taking thier
grievences to a higher level and as a result the many who are tired of
listening to the whining give in because they are tired of being abused.

Next time someone whines to you, remember how you feel and apply it to
this topic. Then maybe you would understand why I want to be able to say
the pledge of allegiance in school, or be allowed to say a prayer with
someone else at work. These were my rights years ago, now they are no
longer, the penalties are extreme and as a result I am unable to pay the
price of these penalties.

JMHO




G

Good point G. What it is is a lack of respect in our nation as a whole
on many levels.

Gryph - For many many years I would rarely admit to anyone that I was an
atheist. At first, The reason was because I constantly bombarded by
those who wanted to "prove the error of my ways". Most got angry and
frustrated with me because I actually had arguments, they were not
prepared to discuss. Then after a while, I did not offer this
information for the very reasons many of you have pointed out. That the
word Athiest was associated with those poeple who whinned and cried
about every God in any publication. I stood for the Pledge, I still
do. I bow my head in silence when anyone of my friends chooses to pray.
And when someone extends to me a blessing in the name of their God, I
know that this is their way of wishing me well or thanking me for some
small kindness and I simply say, thank you.

At this moment most atheist like so many others, get put into this group
of radical thinkers, and go getters. Right now PLEASE let me explain
something to all of you.

You can have your beliefs, you can even voice them in public to whomever
will listen. What you can not do, what I will not agree to, is you can
not have your religion in any way attached to a political or civil
agenda. For this reason, School, which is a public domain run and
supported by government should have no affiliation in any way with
regards to any religion.

To say; because you think that MOST poeple believe in a god anyway, why
not leave it, means you are unaware of the bigger picture. It can not
remain, because it opens a door. It may seem like a small door to you
but to those who fight for equality under the protection that our civil
rights should extend to all, that door MUST BE SHUT.

For generations Christians in this country have been comfortable,
complacent thinking that this country is all about them. When something
treatened that thought, these Christians waved the bill of rights, waved
the constitution as if it were the banner that protected this USA as a
country of Christians.
From behind this banner they bring forth all manner of religious
material and historical falicy to prove that this countries laws were
made for them, to protect Christianity and all it stand for. The
Christian overall feel of this country for so long has made it difficult
to fight this battle.

To further a cause to right the wrongs, to gain equality, the same
equality of any Christian, this group has had to whine, has had to cry
about the word god, about the prayer before a ballgame, about the
bigotry against us in the name of Christianity. Every little step in
the direction of freedom may be a thorn in your side, but the freedom
and equality I stand to gain, others stand to gain is life for us. This
battle is not just a group against Christians, many of those fighting
for this cause are Christian themselves. This is a civil battle, a
political battle, that is being forced into a religeous arena.

When finally this battle is won - AND IT WILL BE WON, in the end there
should be no trace of religion in our laws and in the future, there will
be not need for this kind of division, this religious deivision in our
government. When we win this battle, future generations of all faiths
will be protected equally, without hinderence or reference to their
religious preference or beliefs.





There are so many unaware that this countries laws are af

One other thing, If you think that the public schools can not do a good
job without God in them, if, like Ram you see the schools as a den of
destruction and a dismal playground of sex and death and harm, then I
suggest you go to your various churches and have them look into a more
suitable education for your children. If they refuse to alot funds for
this, then ask them to create a Christian alliance or fund with other
churches in your area that are like minded. Then build your schools and
run them they way you want to.

Here finally is your solution. If so many Christians of this country,
feel the way many of you have stated, then you should have no problem.
After all, any of you have any idea the amount of dollars you give,
tithe, donate as a whole. It could build a country, so why not a few
schools?

I still stand by my original opinion a few more people need religion
shoved down their throat and a flag shoved up their a$$. We probably
wouldn't have so many issues with many inviduals version of parenting or
in most cases non-parenting.by the way my opinion is in regards to the
original post not in regards to the turn that the post has seemed to
take. I have opinions on home schooling but they are very biased and in
no way completely educated lets just say i feel it's fu**ed up and most
homeschooled children lack the social skills nedded to survive in real
life outside of their "home environment". Like i said it's biased and in
no way completely educated

The poem sounds like its written by a right wing bush supporter.

Mr. massagetrade:

People who do that (standing in public places yelling at people that
they r sinners and that they r going to hell). For my they are crazy
people (fanatics).
My only point is that I want express my beliefs in a public place for
instance wearing a t-shirt with a cross or something related to my Lord
JesusChrist, I must be allowed to do it. And that shouldn't be offensive
at all.

Miguel i dont know where you live but here you can wear a tee shirt like
that anywhere you want.Just dont hang it on the wall of the federal
building or stake it out on the public square.

my nephew is in middle school and he is not allowed to wear any clothing
with religious motives. I live in Florida

TLW, I'am sorry that such a t-shirt offends. What you need to
understand is that, right now, in this country, there has been a huge
outcry, that comes from a large portion of the Christian population
themselves. It is because of these people, the extremeist, because of
these Christians who stand against equality that kids in school can not
wear such a t-shirt. There are so many children caught in this
crossfire, the best and only way, the safest way is to take the
Christian equation out of the schools.

It would not have to be so, if those fighting against eqality of all
would have relented to those whose lifestyles are judged by the moral
values of a Christian faith. Please do not hold blame against those who
fight for thier rights, the blame here, goes to those Christians who
block the path that civil rights must take.

I argue my points of freedom, not points of religion. I have never
supported religion in schools or any public arena, however you find it
offensive that a word, "GOD" is offensive. I find that funny, I believe
in quite a few things however the fact is as a result of these few that
do NOT want the word GOD in any government arena has opened the door to
law suits and liabilities that forbid me from my freedoms.

The fact that I am required to sign a contract stating that I am NOT
ALLOWED to say a prayer at the workplace, or even SPEAK of Religion in
the workplace is as a direct result of the few who see opportunities to
file suits against employers for allowing these things. You speak of
your freedoms? What about mine? If certain subjects do come up I am
supposed to report them. I never would because of how I feel about my
freedoms, however if someone wished to push some ideas at work the
employer could be held responsible due to these LIBERAL Ideas.

Are you aware that in the State of California the employer can be held
responsible if an employee has a drink during lunch(alchohol) and
returns to work and hurts themself from a fall? This is as a result of
Frivolous law suits that are aimed at so-called freedoms. Most of these
types of Law Suits are aimed at removing responsibilities from those who
should be held responsible.

WHY? Simple, laws that were written 200 years ago are being taken and
the literal translation is being applied. There is no application of
morality or religious belief. If one judge rules on a case all that is
necessary to take it back to court to get the same IDEA Reheard is to
alter it slightly and resubmit it.

Who is doing this? It surely isn't the moral majority, its the moral
Minority and they want everyone to submit to thier way of thinking or
else they will find another way to do it. In your statements you have
even made this statement that you will not rest until the Moral Majority
Submits to the Moral Minority.

What will be next? HHHhhhhhm, Well? you going to try and take my guns
away because they might hurt someone? Its already being done, I am
required by law to register any weapon I ever purchase. Where in the
constitution or Bill of rights does it specify I do this? No PLace that
I am aware of, yet it is being done. Sounds to me like you want all the
cake to yourself and are not willing to share with the rest of us.

I have only touched on these subjects they are very complicated and as
far as I know can be very heated discussion.

Argue my points as you must however, I will continue to stand my ground
on my freedoms and how the Moral Minority is attempting to control the
Moral Majority.



G

Wow Miguel..i have seen kids wear Jesus shirts to school here but have
not heard of any getting the boot.I think that is a wee bit ridiculous.

"It would not have to be so, if those fighting against eqality of all
would have relented to those whose lifestyles are judged by the moral
values of a Christian faith. Please do not hold blame against those who
fight for thier rights, the blame here, goes to those Christians who
block the path that civil rights must take."

Why is it you keep saying the christian faith is why I stand my ground?
This has nothing to do with my faith, If I was an athiest and still
argued that I want to be able to say this pledge of allegiance or if I
wished to I wanted to say a prayer, What would you have to say? It is
not necessary to believe in God to pray that is BS. I could pray to the
winds if I wish yet in a workplace I am not allowed to do this because
of these Literal Translations of old writtings.

Stop trying to drag Christianity into the argument, that is not what my
arguement is about. It is about how the few are trying to make the many
follow thier way of thinking.

JMHO



G

Gryph, you throw the word moral around as if it had one single meaning -
a christian one. My fight is indeed from a minority standpoint, but it
affects a much more vast population than you seem to be aware of.
Morality is just one of those words whose definition gets lost in a
quandary of beliefs and belief systems.

Further, I am not offended by the word God, I am not offended by those
who choose to believe, whatever they believe about God. I am, however,
offended that there are those in this country whose safety and security
is disregarded because of "the moral majority" and I do use that within
your appearent definition.

Again, you come across with this idea that, you as a Christian, is being
singled out. This fight for civil rights is being fought by mostly
Christians against Christians. Because I am an atheist, please do not
associate the causes of this battle with that one thing. In this, I
truely am a minority. Also, you may not be able to pray at work, but
neither can a Jew or a Hindu. You, Christians have not be singled out.

One other thing, if you really think that it's the minorities that are
taking away your freedoms, then that is in the hands of those legal and
political agencies that affect me too.

is it right to wear a t-shirt with nazi cross stamped on it at school?
can we catalog this as the same of wearing a t-shirt with christain
motives?

I think they should just have some type of religious support at the
school for those who want it. Where ALL religions are accepted and
discussed, but only for those who chose to go, not be force to (like a
required class).

You keep going back to my Christian Faith, I wonder why that is? You
wish me to ignore my beliefs about right and wrong? Because I believe in
GOD? Give me a break, you wish to believe my stand is on religion. You
don't even see what I write or believe that I would ever want my
freedoms or rights. You feel That I argue because of my religion. I say
BS

Ask yourself something, Is Killing your neighbor for fun morally right?
Is sleeping with your best friends Lover Morally right? Are these only
christian beliefs? I don't think so, they are beliefs of the Moral
Majority. That includes most people in the world, they are Morally wrong
in most peoples eyes.

It seems your only arguement is based on my belief as a christian?
twenty years ago when I drank and used on a daily basis I did argue the
same way as I do today, maybe not as eloquent yet I did argue the same
point. I did not have any faith in anything other than the drugs I used
and the next fix, so do me a favor and stop pushing the "FAITH" thing at
me. It has no bearing on how I feel.



G

Wow!
in response to:

'I still stand by my original opinion a few more people need religion
shoved down their throat and a flag shoved up their a$$.'

How am I supposed to breath with someone elses religion choking my
voice.

such a strong statement.

such an action attempted against me would of course cause me to exercise
my right to bear arms.

Dang, I think we're getting caught in time warps here. Our posts are
coming up unsubsinctly (is that a word?)

anyway - Gryph, The civil rights I refer to regard the laws that
surround the word marriage. There are a vast number of Christians that
define the word in one "infallible, moral" way, as one man and one
woman. The laws regarding family are affected by this definition. They
are many, and they affect many in ways those who have no issue with the
laws, do not even recognise. It not only deny's those who would be a
family, all the rights associated, by law, with this word, but it also
affects the abuse laws for everyone. There is a trickle down affect
here that those Christians defending the way the current law stands are
promoting. They do this for only one reason, to uphold a definition that
is consistant with thier religion. It is to the benefit of every kind
of family situation in this country to change the thinking away from a
religious, moral to a civil law. The little steps that have to be taken
include, taking religion of any form, out of public, political agenda.

As I said before, this affects all Christians, the ones who fight for
the change and the ones who stand guard over the definition of a word.

I am not out to change anyone's beliefs, I am not trying to discriminate
against anyone, my purpose now is change the thinking that this country
is and it's laws exist for the sole purpose of upholding Christian
beliefs. It is not. It is here to provide freedom for all, to extend
equal rights to all.

Am I wrong in thinking that every family, even if it does not consist of
one man and one woman united in "marriage", deserves every equal right
as those who are ALLOWED a spousal agreement based on a moral code, as
defined by Christianity. Or do you like so many others believe that a
moral based on Christian faith belongs in our civil code? If you are
the latter, keep in mind that you dicriminate against many other
Christians as well as non-Christians, and against many who have no other
civil option under the current law, many of whom are children.