No

They were kicked out of the garden for disobeying God and doing exactly as he said not to. The knowledge itself had nothing to do with anything, it was the disobeying God. Just as now, if we disobey God we will be kicked out of heaven.

Fuches, after what I just wrote, why would you try to lead me blindly into believing your opinion of what the Christian religion is?

While you're here, I would like some clarification please.

You claim to wish to debate the Bible as if it were true, correct?

If what you actualy wrote was true, that you wish to debate as if it were real, then explain to me how a tree of knowledge, put in the garden by God, could come from say-tin...

Cowboy ...haven't you already admitted that you find yourself not to be able to stop sinning ...and to intentionly sin is disobeying God ...so do that mean that you won't get into Heaven?

if the answer is no..then you can't claim that disobedience got Adam and Eve kicked out of the Garden ..since the same wouldn't also apply to you disobeying God with your sin addiction

just as the story of Adam and Eve did not claim that Satan place the Tree there..neither did I claim that

what I said is that God gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of tilling the soil and giving animals names and all knowledge they gain beyond what God handed down to them in The Garden was due to Satan getting Eve to gain this knowledge from eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge

if God wanted them to have that knowledge then he would have given it to them before Satan's intervention

Satan gave Man the desire to obtain and accumulate knowledge and anyone that seek an education beyond what God handed down in the bible do so because of Satan's actions in the garden of eden

Let's see if I can make this simpler...

1. What is the topic's title?

2. Who placed the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden?
















and so I don't have to post this later...

I don't know if i'll go to heaven, nobody knows who's goin to heaven or not. We will not know till that faithful day of judgement.

is knowledge a gift from Satan



God .....so what's your point?


oh I see your point....you are trying to suggest that it wasn't Satan but God that was responsible for Adam and Eve eating the fruit and gaining that knowledge ....that everything took place because it was all part of God's Divine Plan for Man to fall...ok cool concept

Cowboy...but clearly you can agree that intentionly sinning will not get you into Heaven .....so why don't you stop? .....is it because you actually don't want to go

how did you know? you are totally right funches, that's why i spend hours after hours in this forums spreading the word of God and uplifting God's name in my everyday, i don't want me nor anyone to go to heaven. Is why i spend my life living for God. You're so smart funches. Exactly why i worship the true God.

Cowboy...why are you spending hours of spreading the word of God to others if you are not going to follow his word yourself and stop intentionly sinning so you can get into Heaven ....it only indicates that you don't believe what you tell others

you have a habit of telling people how they will end up in the lake of fire...so aren't you headed that way also

I never once said any particular person was going to hell, we are not to judge others. I spread the word of God because people need to know this, and you do not know if or how well i do with not sinning, you have no clue at all. So why do you post things directly at people downgrading them? Let's keep these post on a general note rather then directly attacking one shall we?

And on your post about the tree of life. Yes God placed that tree there, but told them not to eat of it, so therefor also did not tempt them to do as such so it is not God's fault for them eating of the tree. It's not God's fault for any sins anyone does, for it is still that person's choice and that person's actions that do as such. You always like to find a scapegoat for your failures and other people's failures instead of taking the responsibility for your actions and that's exactly what is going to happen, everyone shall take responsibility for every evil thing anyone has ever done in there life, including me not in anyway trying to say i'm perfect or that i know everything. So again let's keep it on a general note and not get personal.

Cowboy....you open the door when like clockwork you attempt to sneak in your sermons about what happens when you disobey God or that the outcome of sin is death...so I asked you since you can't stop sinning aren't you disobeying God and won't this keep you out of Heaven ...of course you never give a yes answer and this generally stop your preaching ....



see here is an example of your giving a sermon and getting personal ....all I was trying to tell you is practice what you preach ..if you are going to tell others how great God is or what will happen if you sin then don't say it do it by not intentionly sinning yourself ..until then you are being a hypocrite

also if God place the tree of knowledge in the garden then perhaps he should have given Adam and Eve the knowledge to understand what disobedience was, if God is truely omniscient then he would have known what would happen but decided to do it anyway ..this is why what happen in the garden is either God's fault or God is not omniscient ..

see here is an example of your giving a sermon and getting personal ....all I was trying to tell you is practice what you preach ..if you are going to tell others how great God is or what will happen if you sin then don't say it do it by not intentionly sinning yourself ..until then you are being a hypocrite

also if God place the tree of knowledge in the garden then perhaps he should have given Adam and Eve the knowledge to understand what disobedience was, if God is truely omniscient then he would have known what would happen but decided to do it anyway ..this is why what happen in the garden is either God's fault or God is not omniscient ..

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For 1 you do not know if i disobey God or not, you don't know so don't stereotype people. You have absolutely no clue if i practice what i preach or not, not saying i sin or not that's none of your buiseness. Adam and Eve did know what disobediance was, obviousely you don't. Cause it wouldn't have been considered disobediance if they did not know of such.

Here's a good example to explain what i'm trying to say. You, me, and most every body knows that say for instance stealing is against the bible, but yet alot of people still do as such. They all understand what disobediance is, but yet they still do the sinful thing, same as adam and eve did.

And with your logic on being God's fault, then if i go to the bank and rob it, it's not my fault it's the government's fault because they should know that if they keep that much money in one place someone would try to steal it.

You always try to put blame on something/someone else instead of standing up and taking the punishment. It was adam and eves choice to eat of the tree nevertheless of if God knew they would or not, the blame is not on God it is on humans for disobeying God.

Funches, here is where you should take your own advice. Stick to the topic like you insist others do and stop attempting to give personal sermons...
It appears to me that all of your posts have either "Hell" or "free will" as a sub-topic. Whenever you can't answer a direct question, you call foul and/or change the subject.

I also have observed you misquoting and paraphrasing other poster's words to suit your agenda. Cowboy never once said he "intentionaly" sins, so why do you insist that he does??? Why do you insist that you know people's thoughts and actions?

Perhaps you should learn the topic a little better if you wish to "debate" (term used loosely) as if the topic were true...

Gwendolyn2009 showed more knowledge of your subject than alot of people have and you think you made her leave? She used her knowledge and determined that any type of "debate" was futile. Maybe you should appologise and ask her for a little bit of her wisdom.
I wouldn't mind debating you on these subjects if you took the time to learn them first.

One question...

If eating from the tree of knowledge allowed Adam and Eve to recognize/know the difference between good and evil(which is exactly what is claimed in the Bible), then how could 'God' - or any reasonable/rational person for that matter - possibly hold the two responsible for choosing 'wrong/evil/bad' before they were even able to know the difference?

Actually, I remember you posting this kind of thing before. So, unless you've been lying about it, then yes we do know about intentional sin.



Why don't we change this to "murder" and we can get a better perspective. "Thou shalt not kill" ... murder is evil, murder is against the law, to murder is to disobey the law and therefore, disobedience is evil. So in order to disobey God and eat the fruit, Adam and Eve either already had knowledge of good and evil, or they were condemned for actions they could not begin to fathom and were not prepared by God to know the difference.



God is not the government. According to this discussion, God is beyond and above the human concept of law and order. If you place a bowl of water and a bowl of milk in front of a 6 week old puppy and say "Don't drink the milk" and it does, is that the dog's fault or is it yours? And do you beat the dog for disobedience? Same concept with Adam and Eve ... they didn't know any better. They were not given the proper knowledge (of good and evil) to rightly prepare them to make their "free will" decision.




Making an uninformed decision is not much of a choice. Let's say that you are given a choice between food A and food B, and are told that food A contains arsenic and food b contains corn syrup. Without a knowledge of what arsenic or corn syrup was, you would not be able to make a proper choice and have a 50% chance of dying in the next few hours. Same applies. Unless Adam and Eve were not given proper knowledge of good, evil and consequence, then it was God's fault for placing the Tree in the garden.

Oh and ...



The only outcome of obedience is also death. We all die, sin or no. Is it still considered the sin of murder if God commits the act? And if not, why can't God practice what He preaches?

Cowboy...it was you youself in other threads that told me that you are to weak to stop intentionly sinning....you kept making excuses why you intentionly disobeyed God's Word..you even tried to blame it on Satan....but yet when I ask you if this will keep you out of Heaven then your answer is you don't know.. but yet when it comes to other people your postition is sin is death

Adam and Eve are the ones that didn't have a clue but yet getting a clue from the tree is when God gave them a clue and kicked them out of Eden

you have this knowledge of what will happen to those that disobey God but yet you ignore it by continuing to intentionly sin and ignoring The Old Testament ...so that is why it appears that you don't even believe what you tell others....is this due to common sense, a dispect for God or because of the knowledge granted by Satan ...either way you should be able to understand why Adam and Eve disobeyed God... since you are doing it yourself

God is not the government. According to this discussion, God is beyond and above the human concept of law and order.
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Very true, but to put in a way of explaining it for people that don't get the concept of what God is it is easiest to put it into common day form. As in God's the king, and we are the residents of his kingdom. If you intentionally disobey the king's word what happens? He punishes you.

Making an uninformed decision is not much of a choice.
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It was not uninformed, adam and eve were directly told to not eat of the tree of life. This is in no way an unintentional disobediance, they were specifically told not to eat of it, so they took there free will and disobeyed God.

The only outcome of obedience is also death. We all die, sin or no. Is it still considered the sin of murder if God commits the act?
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No we don't all die sin or not. Yes all of our mortal bodies die, but none of us have to actually die. Reason being, if we do as we should and are blessed with the gift of heaven we will live for eternity. People that don't make it to heaven will not live for ever, they are only around for an alotted amount of time. They will burn in the lake of fire, and again the time of how long they will be there is not mentioned to my knowledge.

Peter_Pan ...Cowboy once tried to blame his sinning on Satan and then in the same breath he preach about how people should take responsibilty for their actions ....so did Satan make him do it or did he himself "intentionly" do it ......



Peter_Pan...the topic was about Satan and knowledge ..Gwendolyn was talking about Zeus and Loki and other Gods ....so perhaps you can explain Zeus and Loki and the other gods roles in the event that took place between Adam, Eve, Satan and God in the garden or eden...if you can not do this...then you have become enlighten why it had nothing to do with the topic

No i never "BLAMED" Satan for my sinning, you must have misunderstood me. Sinning is no ones fault by there own. Yes Satan tempted me and i fell into his temptation and sinned, but nevertheless it was my own fault for sinning. Same goes with anyone's sinning.