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| Topic: God is NOT a loving god. | |
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Edited by
RKISIT
on
Sat 06/01/13 03:20 PM
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"Other than rail on how irritated you personally are that some people believe in God, you have not offered much at all in the way of "education."" Clearly you've been reading between the lines Jean. I have brought quite a few facts into the conversation, whether you choose to believe them or not is up to you, but that does not make them any less factual. "Religion is what is used to incite people into wars, and manipulate people but that is not really what wars are about." Does it really matter if it is what the wars are about or not, "it is used" to start the wars. A gun at a murder scene is not what the murder was all about, the gun caused no harm? Should we give guns to all of our children and teach them how to use them? Hello Columbine! Obviously not. Guns can be used to protect people or they can be used to take lives. Religion can be used to bring a deeper spiritual understanding of life or bring on genocide. "With most christians they have what is known as cognitive dissonance." I looked up that phrase and if I understand correctly it would roughly translate into lamens terms as "they're fooling themselves" but I do prefer the way you said it. "You will not "educate" anyone with your attitude which clearly shows your anger and frustration." I do apologize if I seem frustrated but it's difficult not to be a bit so when trying to explain to closed minded people that religion is the worlds oldest hoax and that god is simply a metaphor and getting a lot of really redundant replies in return(not all the replies but a lot of them). I understand that you can't exactly enlighten people that have been brainwashed since they were children but then hey, I got off the religion wagon at the age of 27.Up into my early 20's I would have likely made a lot of the same arguments that people have given me in this thread. But I managed to open my eyes and see religion for what it really is, a political weapon. "I hope you find peace." I'll find peace if and when neurological and computer sciences advance enough to transfer my consciousness into a computer/robot. There is no god and life is pain. its interesting that you should be able to become 'frustrated' by what someone else chooses to believe Im not frustrated with those who are putting their faith in MAN (science),,,,,,whatever floats your boat,,, belief and action are not the same thing,, although belief can inspire action,,, it is a correlation, not a causation,,,, there are men of both religious and scientific conviction that do wonderful deeds, and those that do terrible deeds blaming the deed on the belief system instead of the choice of the person,, is an exercise in ignoring the accountability humans should have for their own actions ironically, something that the 'religious' are often accused of doing in this thread,,,, So if someone claims they killed because god told them to or because it's in the bible where children can be stoned to death and homosexuals can be killed then how is this not their beliefs fault? Ah maybe because in certain countries it's illegal or someone who wrote a part of the bible where follow the laws of the land because people were actually killing others cause of their beliefs? Like the inquisition,the crusades,the kkk,the christians vs muslums in africa,the salem witch hunt,the philistines massacre,the islam extremist,the army of god abortion doctors killings,the serial killers who went to church,george bush jr.......etc. it is not the fault of anyone but he who chooses to take the action,, period many things can INFLUENCE people one way or the other, the bible says to turn the other cheek as well, it says not to throw stones unless you are sinless as well,,,, those choices are available for interpretation, but the human mind decides what it will and wont take from the words it reads,,,,, none of the activity you mention does NOt predate religion, it just added religion as another factor into the choice people live with allegiance to their beliefs, and some people are willing to harm others who dont share their beliefs,, its as simple as that with or WITHOUT religion.... How many have killed in the name of the abrahamic gods vs. killing in the name of Hinduism? Hell for that matter what's the kill ratio for God and those that murdered for him in the bible compared to satans kills? |
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"Other than rail on how irritated you personally are that some people believe in God, you have not offered much at all in the way of "education."" Clearly you've been reading between the lines Jean. I have brought quite a few facts into the conversation, whether you choose to believe them or not is up to you, but that does not make them any less factual. "Religion is what is used to incite people into wars, and manipulate people but that is not really what wars are about." Does it really matter if it is what the wars are about or not, "it is used" to start the wars. A gun at a murder scene is not what the murder was all about, the gun caused no harm? Should we give guns to all of our children and teach them how to use them? Hello Columbine! Obviously not. Guns can be used to protect people or they can be used to take lives. Religion can be used to bring a deeper spiritual understanding of life or bring on genocide. "With most christians they have what is known as cognitive dissonance." I looked up that phrase and if I understand correctly it would roughly translate into lamens terms as "they're fooling themselves" but I do prefer the way you said it. "You will not "educate" anyone with your attitude which clearly shows your anger and frustration." I do apologize if I seem frustrated but it's difficult not to be a bit so when trying to explain to closed minded people that religion is the worlds oldest hoax and that god is simply a metaphor and getting a lot of really redundant replies in return(not all the replies but a lot of them). I understand that you can't exactly enlighten people that have been brainwashed since they were children but then hey, I got off the religion wagon at the age of 27.Up into my early 20's I would have likely made a lot of the same arguments that people have given me in this thread. But I managed to open my eyes and see religion for what it really is, a political weapon. "I hope you find peace." I'll find peace if and when neurological and computer sciences advance enough to transfer my consciousness into a computer/robot. There is no god and life is pain. its interesting that you should be able to become 'frustrated' by what someone else chooses to believe Im not frustrated with those who are putting their faith in MAN (science),,,,,,whatever floats your boat,,, belief and action are not the same thing,, although belief can inspire action,,, it is a correlation, not a causation,,,, there are men of both religious and scientific conviction that do wonderful deeds, and those that do terrible deeds blaming the deed on the belief system instead of the choice of the person,, is an exercise in ignoring the accountability humans should have for their own actions ironically, something that the 'religious' are often accused of doing in this thread,,,, So if someone claims they killed because god told them to or because it's in the bible where children can be stoned to death and homosexuals can be killed then how is this not their beliefs fault? Ah maybe because in certain countries it's illegal or someone who wrote a part of the bible where follow the laws of the land because people were actually killing others cause of their beliefs? Like the inquisition,the crusades,the kkk,the christians vs muslums in africa,the salem witch hunt,the philistines massacre,the islam extremist,the army of god abortion doctors killings,the serial killers who went to church,george bush jr.......etc. it is not the fault of anyone but he who chooses to take the action,, period many things can INFLUENCE people one way or the other, the bible says to turn the other cheek as well, it says not to throw stones unless you are sinless as well,,,, those choices are available for interpretation, but the human mind decides what it will and wont take from the words it reads,,,,, none of the activity you mention does NOt predate religion, it just added religion as another factor into the choice people live with allegiance to their beliefs, and some people are willing to harm others who dont share their beliefs,, its as simple as that with or WITHOUT religion.... How many have killed in the name of the abrahamic gods vs. killing in the name of Hinduism? Hell for that matter what's the kill ratio for God and those that murdered for him in the bible compared to satans kills? I dont know, how many have been killed over power and territory,,,religious power, power over boundaries, government power,,,etc,,? I doubt anyone has the numbers,, its part of what humans do the kill ratio for God and those in the bible is probably lower than the kill ratio for greed and power,,,,,human attributes,,,, |
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If it weren't for "God" then who would you blame things on? If you believe in a good God then you must believe in Satan (evil) because if you don't then you have to blame God for all the evil.
It is time that we took full responsibility for the reality we create and stop blaming everyone else. |
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Edited by
RKISIT
on
Sun 06/02/13 12:16 PM
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dont know, how many have been killed over power and territory,,,religious power, power over boundaries, government power,,,etc,,?
I doubt anyone has the numbers,, its part of what humans do the kill ratio for God and those in the bible is probably lower than the kill ratio for greed and power,,,,,human attributes,,,, -------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't care about outside of nonreligious wars.My point is about religious wars please stop trying to pawn true facts about people killing each other over religious beliefs with wars and killings that had nothing to do with religion. Fact is people have killed in the name of their gods and religious beliefs.Along with the abrahamic god even though it is imaginary he still murdered many unjustifiably according to the bible. Anyone who worships a god that had 42 kids mauled by bears and murdered babies are scary,evil and demonic themselves. As george carlin also said "why would i join a cult whose symbol is a man nailed to two pieces of wood?" |
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As george carlin also said "why would i join a cult whose symbol is a man nailed to two pieces of wood?" Good one. I'll use that one. 
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dont know, how many have been killed over power and territory,,,religious power, power over boundaries, government power,,,etc,,? I doubt anyone has the numbers,, its part of what humans do the kill ratio for God and those in the bible is probably lower than the kill ratio for greed and power,,,,,human attributes,,,, -------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't care about outside of nonreligious wars.My point is about religious wars please stop trying to pawn true facts about people killing each other over religious beliefs with wars and killings that had nothing to do with religion. Fact is people have killed in the name of their gods and religious beliefs.Along with the abrahamic god even though it is imaginary he still murdered many unjustifiably according to the bible. Anyone who worships a god that had 42 kids mauled by bears and murdered babies are scary,evil and demonic themselves. As george carlin also said "why would i join a cult whose symbol is a man nailed to two pieces of wood?" what 'true facts' did I pawn Fact is people have killed,,,,repeat PEOPLE have killed ,,,you can continue to blame whomever or whatever you wish for that 'fact' |
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Edited by
Lazarus102
on
Mon 06/03/13 02:36 PM
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"How many have killed in the name of the abrahamic gods vs. killing in the name of Hinduism?
Hell for that matter what's the kill ratio for God and those that murdered for him in the bible compared to satans kills?" I find this to be fairly ironic. The amount of people murdered over people following the bible does FAR outnumber those killed by anyone actively following Satan. How's this for a compromise, abolish religion and get it the hell out of politics. Not many people here seem to have a deep love for religion anyways it's all about their god and organized religion only allows people in power to control the people through use of deceptive words. Let people believe whatever the hell they want but kick the pope out of this throne and let people believe what they want in their own way. As well, as I said, get it out of politics, no politician that boasts a strong religious belief should be voted into office, or at the very least they should be forced to sigh a contract stating that they will not mix their beliefs with their work in any way. Because when politics mix with religion, bad things happen. God should be about spirituality and finding a deeper spiritual meaning in our lives, not about power. Religion has made it about power and control and that needs to go. Despite popular belief I am not bias and I do have the ability to change the way I think based on my experiences. But this ^ is the bare bones of what my entire argument boils down to. |
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The spiritual person who knows who they truly are, has unlimited power.
This is not power over other people though. It is power over their own lives and reality. There is nothing more important IMO than your own growth. |
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wonders why people feel so intimidated by religion,, that they suggest taking the individuals consent to congregate with others,
all while espousing a desire for people to not be 'controlled' by others,,, ,,,,,irony at its scariest actually,,, people choose to congregate, whether its to read the bible or to watch football, thats a choice that is noones to take away from them,,, |
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"How many have killed in the name of the abrahamic gods vs. killing in the name of Hinduism? Hell for that matter what's the kill ratio for God and those that murdered for him in the bible compared to satans kills?" I find this to be fairly ironic. The amount of people murdered over people following the bible does FAR outnumber those killed by anyone actively following Satan. How's this for a compromise, abolish religion and get it the hell out of politics. Not many people here seem to have a deep love for religion anyways it's all about their god and organized religion only allows people in power to control the people through use of deceptive words. Let people believe whatever the hell they want but kick the pope out of this throne and let people believe what they want in their own way. As well, as I said, get it out of politics, no politician that boasts a strong religious belief should be voted into office, or at the very least they should be forced to sigh a contract stating that they will not mix their beliefs with their work in any way. Because when politics mix with religion, bad things happen. God should be about spirituality and finding a deeper spiritual meaning in our lives, not about power. Religion has made it about power and control and that needs to go. Despite popular belief I am not bias and I do have the ability to change the way I think based on my experiences. But this ^ is the bare bones of what my entire argument boils down to. there are far more people probably following the religious doctrines than there are satans , since most are not aware of any doctrines explicitly inspired of Satan to follow that would suggest that similar to the complaint that more have killed who follow religion,, more have saved and sacrificed and helped who followed religion as well... if you dont like religion dont follow it,,,, |
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What needs to happen is that the Vatican should open its door to everyone to examine the documents they keep hidden away from the public that would discredit the entire Abraham myths and put an end to all the false information fueling the petty disputes about religion.
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 06/04/13 11:26 AM
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"How many have killed in the name of the abrahamic gods vs. killing in the name of Hinduism? Hell for that matter what's the kill ratio for God and those that murdered for him in the bible compared to satans kills?" I find this to be fairly ironic. The amount of people murdered over people following the bible does FAR outnumber those killed by anyone actively following Satan. How's this for a compromise, abolish religion and get it the hell out of politics. Not many people here seem to have a deep love for religion anyways it's all about their god and organized religion only allows people in power to control the people through use of deceptive words. Let people believe whatever the hell they want but kick the pope out of this throne and let people believe what they want in their own way. As well, as I said, get it out of politics, no politician that boasts a strong religious belief should be voted into office, or at the very least they should be forced to sigh a contract stating that they will not mix their beliefs with their work in any way. Because when politics mix with religion, bad things happen. God should be about spirituality and finding a deeper spiritual meaning in our lives, not about power. Religion has made it about power and control and that needs to go. Despite popular belief I am not bias and I do have the ability to change the way I think based on my experiences. But this ^ is the bare bones of what my entire argument boils down to. there are far more people probably following the religious doctrines than there are satans , since most are not aware of any doctrines explicitly inspired of Satan to follow that would suggest that similar to the complaint that more have killed who follow religion,, more have saved and sacrificed and helped who followed religion as well... if you dont like religion dont follow it,,,, Problem is if people choose to not, they get ostracized and cast out for not. Religious people want their beliefs respected but refuse to respect those of others in the same way. It's hypocritical. I'm not gonna tell you you can't be religious if you wanna be, only to respect others choices not to be and not try and force your lifestyle onto them when they don't want it. Really don't think that's too much to ask is it? |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 06/04/13 11:35 AM
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What needs to happen is that the Vatican should open its door to everyone to examine the documents they keep hidden away from the public that would discredit the entire Abraham myths and put an end to all the false information fueling the petty disputes about religion. Even if they did that, people would STILL try and make apologies for their religion. People when faced with a reality they don't wanna hear, be it in this, politics or any other place, will fight it to the very end. I think you know that as well as I do. A person can only awake when they're ready, and no amount of information is gonna do the trick if they're not no matter how damning. It can't be forced. I think in time as the older generation dies off, religion as we know it will cease to be just based on the fact that this generation is much less willing to accept what their elders did, but any dying off process is not gonna happen from information alone, the people have to be willing to hear it too. |
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"How many have killed in the name of the abrahamic gods vs. killing in the name of Hinduism? Hell for that matter what's the kill ratio for God and those that murdered for him in the bible compared to satans kills?" I find this to be fairly ironic. The amount of people murdered over people following the bible does FAR outnumber those killed by anyone actively following Satan. How's this for a compromise, abolish religion and get it the hell out of politics. Not many people here seem to have a deep love for religion anyways it's all about their god and organized religion only allows people in power to control the people through use of deceptive words. Let people believe whatever the hell they want but kick the pope out of this throne and let people believe what they want in their own way. As well, as I said, get it out of politics, no politician that boasts a strong religious belief should be voted into office, or at the very least they should be forced to sigh a contract stating that they will not mix their beliefs with their work in any way. Because when politics mix with religion, bad things happen. God should be about spirituality and finding a deeper spiritual meaning in our lives, not about power. Religion has made it about power and control and that needs to go. Despite popular belief I am not bias and I do have the ability to change the way I think based on my experiences. But this ^ is the bare bones of what my entire argument boils down to. there are far more people probably following the religious doctrines than there are satans , since most are not aware of any doctrines explicitly inspired of Satan to follow that would suggest that similar to the complaint that more have killed who follow religion,, more have saved and sacrificed and helped who followed religion as well... if you dont like religion dont follow it,,,, Problem is if people choose to not, they get ostracized and cast out for not. Religious people want their beliefs respected but refuse to respect those of others in the same way. It's hypocritical. I'm not gonna tell you you can't be religious if you wanna be, only to respect others choices not to be and not try and force your lifestyle onto them when they don't want it. Really don't think that's too much to ask is it? On facebook I have old high school 'friends' and they are always posting junk about their Christian beliefs... I mean constantly! I wonder what they would think if I posted stuff about some pagan religion or Islam in their face constantly. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 06/04/13 11:41 AM
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if you dont like religion dont follow it,,,, Problem is if people choose to not, they get ostracized and cast out for not. Religious people want their beliefs respected but refuse to respect those of others in the same way. It's hypocritical. I'm not gonna tell you you can't be religious if you wanna be, only to respect others choices not to be and not try and force your lifestyle onto them when they don't want it. Really don't think that's too much to ask is it? On facebook I have old high school 'friends' and they are always posting junk about their Christian beliefs... I mean constantly! I wonder what they would think if I posted stuff about some pagan religion or Islam in their face constantly. Oh yeah, that's another thing, especially with Islam. Christians get so up in arms over it being spread now, and its' belief set being pushed onto them, but yet fail to realize that they do the very same thing they are railing against with their own beliefs. Once again, hypocritical, if it's wrong for them to do, it's wrong for you to do too, you are not exempt or somehow superior to them. |
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if you dont like religion dont follow it,,,, Problem is if people choose to not, they get ostracized and cast out for not. Religious people want their beliefs respected but refuse to respect those of others in the same way. It's hypocritical. I'm not gonna tell you you can't be religious if you wanna be, only to respect others choices not to be and not try and force your lifestyle onto them when they don't want it. Really don't think that's too much to ask is it? On facebook I have old high school 'friends' and they are always posting junk about their Christian beliefs... I mean constantly! I wonder what they would think if I posted stuff about some pagan religion or Islam in their face constantly. Oh yeah, that's another thing, especially with Islam. Christians get so up in arms over it being spread now, and its' belief set being pushed onto them, but yet fail to realize that they do the very same thing they are railing against with their own beliefs. Once again, hypocritical, if it's wrong for them to do, it's wrong for you to do too, you are not exempt or somehow superior to them. really? when was the last time a christian told anyone "be a christian or die?" (i think it was about 600 years ago, during the crusades)... on the other hand, look up how many Christians are being killed right now in islam ruled countries... get back to me, huh... |
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if you dont like religion dont follow it,,,, Problem is if people choose to not, they get ostracized and cast out for not. Religious people want their beliefs respected but refuse to respect those of others in the same way. It's hypocritical. I'm not gonna tell you you can't be religious if you wanna be, only to respect others choices not to be and not try and force your lifestyle onto them when they don't want it. Really don't think that's too much to ask is it? On facebook I have old high school 'friends' and they are always posting junk about their Christian beliefs... I mean constantly! I wonder what they would think if I posted stuff about some pagan religion or Islam in their face constantly. Oh yeah, that's another thing, especially with Islam. Christians get so up in arms over it being spread now, and its' belief set being pushed onto them, but yet fail to realize that they do the very same thing they are railing against with their own beliefs. Once again, hypocritical, if it's wrong for them to do, it's wrong for you to do too, you are not exempt or somehow superior to them. really? when was the last time a christian told anyone "be a christian or die?" (i think it was about 600 years ago, during the crusades)... on the other hand, look up how many Christians are being killed right now in islam ruled countries... get back to me, huh... "Be a Christian or go to hell" mean anything to you? Bottom line is, semantics not withstanding, Islam and Christianity really are two sides of the very same coin in the end, and at the least as you admit share a common history in how they act or once acted. Is Christianity maybe less barbaric now than it used to be compared to Islam? Maybe, but the believers of it still tend to act in the same "do it or else" manner as that which they criticize even if they don't actively kill. Can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. |
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OK!
You all get off the Cross now,we need the Wood!
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"How many have killed in the name of the abrahamic gods vs. killing in the name of Hinduism? Hell for that matter what's the kill ratio for God and those that murdered for him in the bible compared to satans kills?" I find this to be fairly ironic. The amount of people murdered over people following the bible does FAR outnumber those killed by anyone actively following Satan. How's this for a compromise, abolish religion and get it the hell out of politics. Not many people here seem to have a deep love for religion anyways it's all about their god and organized religion only allows people in power to control the people through use of deceptive words. Let people believe whatever the hell they want but kick the pope out of this throne and let people believe what they want in their own way. As well, as I said, get it out of politics, no politician that boasts a strong religious belief should be voted into office, or at the very least they should be forced to sigh a contract stating that they will not mix their beliefs with their work in any way. Because when politics mix with religion, bad things happen. God should be about spirituality and finding a deeper spiritual meaning in our lives, not about power. Religion has made it about power and control and that needs to go. Despite popular belief I am not bias and I do have the ability to change the way I think based on my experiences. But this ^ is the bare bones of what my entire argument boils down to. there are far more people probably following the religious doctrines than there are satans , since most are not aware of any doctrines explicitly inspired of Satan to follow that would suggest that similar to the complaint that more have killed who follow religion,, more have saved and sacrificed and helped who followed religion as well... if you dont like religion dont follow it,,,, Problem is if people choose to not, they get ostracized and cast out for not. Religious people want their beliefs respected but refuse to respect those of others in the same way. It's hypocritical. I'm not gonna tell you you can't be religious if you wanna be, only to respect others choices not to be and not try and force your lifestyle onto them when they don't want it. Really don't think that's too much to ask is it? On facebook I have old high school 'friends' and they are always posting junk about their Christian beliefs... I mean constantly! I wonder what they would think if I posted stuff about some pagan religion or Islam in their face constantly. as a christian, I say go for it, its your page, let it reflect you,, I dont see the problem I also agree that adults should not try to 'force' other adults into beliefs,, true beliefs cant be forced anyhow,,, parents, however, have an obligation to instill values and belief systems into their kids instead of just leaving it to the world to do,,, |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Tue 06/04/13 07:15 PM
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"How many have killed in the name of the abrahamic gods vs. killing in the name of Hinduism? Hell for that matter what's the kill ratio for God and those that murdered for him in the bible compared to satans kills?" I find this to be fairly ironic. The amount of people murdered over people following the bible does FAR outnumber those killed by anyone actively following Satan. How's this for a compromise, abolish religion and get it the hell out of politics. Not many people here seem to have a deep love for religion anyways it's all about their god and organized religion only allows people in power to control the people through use of deceptive words. Let people believe whatever the hell they want but kick the pope out of this throne and let people believe what they want in their own way. As well, as I said, get it out of politics, no politician that boasts a strong religious belief should be voted into office, or at the very least they should be forced to sigh a contract stating that they will not mix their beliefs with their work in any way. Because when politics mix with religion, bad things happen. God should be about spirituality and finding a deeper spiritual meaning in our lives, not about power. Religion has made it about power and control and that needs to go. Despite popular belief I am not bias and I do have the ability to change the way I think based on my experiences. But this ^ is the bare bones of what my entire argument boils down to. there are far more people probably following the religious doctrines than there are satans , since most are not aware of any doctrines explicitly inspired of Satan to follow that would suggest that similar to the complaint that more have killed who follow religion,, more have saved and sacrificed and helped who followed religion as well... if you dont like religion dont follow it,,,, Problem is if people choose to not, they get ostracized and cast out for not. Religious people want their beliefs respected but refuse to respect those of others in the same way. It's hypocritical. I'm not gonna tell you you can't be religious if you wanna be, only to respect others choices not to be and not try and force your lifestyle onto them when they don't want it. Really don't think that's too much to ask is it? On facebook I have old high school 'friends' and they are always posting junk about their Christian beliefs... I mean constantly! I wonder what they would think if I posted stuff about some pagan religion or Islam in their face constantly. as a christian, I say go for it, its your page, let it reflect you,, I dont see the problem I also agree that adults should not try to 'force' other adults into beliefs,, true beliefs cant be forced anyhow,,, parents, however, have an obligation to instill values and belief systems into their kids instead of just leaving it to the world to do,,, Disagree, they have an obligation to teach them how to be independent and think for themselves as they grow older, NOT preach one morality over another to them. I still call that child abuse to FORCE a child into one belief system over another against its' will. A child should be allowed to be a child without having morality shoved onto them. They can decide about belief systems and all of that, whether they wanna go to church etc, when they are old enough to understand, should not be before. That is wrong, I don't give a crap about intentions it's still wrong, all a parent needs to do is teach them how to be good people, how to love, respect, etc. You don't need a church or religion to do that. Leave that to the adults who can choose it, don't take theirs from them. |
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