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| Topic: Are we Arrogant? | |
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Obama's comments, are more for diplomacy than anything else. You don't gain cooperation from people by telling them or making them feel like you think you're superior to them. I think his words were more to mend the damage that Bush did to America's reputation in the world.
I think arrogance is when you laud the things you did right while making excuses and not taking responsibility for the things you did wrong. Arrogance would be the US taking sole credit for winning WW2 or saying that Europe should be so grateful to us without acknowledging that maybe those other countries lost lives and sacrificed as well. It would be arrogant to think we went over there to save Europe when we did not enter the battle until Pearl Harbor. It'd be to forget the many many sacrifices of the Russians without whom, the war would not be won, they lost at least 20 million people (nearly 10 million military) all told they lost nearly 14% of their total population. By comparison we lost .32%. We should be proud of what we did, but not forget that others also fought and died. There are both arrogant and humble americans, as is the case in any other country. |
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we were talking about the same speech. Maybe you believe its okay to kiss ass and apologize for OUR nation to other nations.. then so be it. So you still haven't read it or you just didn't understand what he was saying. He in no way was "kissing ass", and if you listen to what little is available in audio you'll here the tone he was using, that's what made me start looking for the complete text as I knew it was not what people were making it out to be. I did find it some what apologetic and didn't care for it either, but the tone was clear and it was a strong stance not at all what it was made out to be. I find that incrediably ARROGANT. Also, Im sure other nations can view it as brown nosing, groveling, or worse. I think that it makes us vulnerable. I think the results say it all and that he did nothing of the sort. |
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Obama's comments, are more for diplomacy than anything else. You don't gain cooperation from people by telling them or making them feel like you think you're superior to them. I think his words were more to mend the damage that Bush did to America's reputation in the world. You are exactly right and that seems to be exactly what he's done. |
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we would seem arrogant if BHO didn't say something about the other countries as well. he didn't just mention the US. He mentioned other countries which isn't groveling either.
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Edited by
Winx
on
Sun 06/14/09 04:40 PM
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So boo, do you think that people and our president should air our dirty laundry in front of the whole world, and that by doing that we can better work together against those issues that are dangers and great possiblities in the world?? Our dirty laundry is already out there. He didn't air any out either. |
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we would seem arrogant if BHO didn't say something about the other countries as well. he didn't just mention the US. He mentioned other countries which isn't groveling either. Exactly! |
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So boo, do you think that people and our president should air our dirty laundry in front of the whole world, and that by doing that we can better work together against those issues that are dangers and great possiblities in the world?? Our dirty laundry is already out there. that is the medias deal lol....but (and I can't believe I'm defending a politician lol) he didn't air dirty laundry nor did he make apologies for our fallen soldiers like the OP implied |
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I wonder how many americans would get mad if the French were constantly telling us that they won our revolutionary war?
It's like if you saw some guy getting beat up by a bully and you beat the bully up. The guy will probably be grateful and like you quite a bit, they'll think your a great person, maybe you become friends and hang out. Then you remind the person for the next 60 years that you saved their ass...at some point it'll get old and the guy will simply hate you. The difference between arrogance and confidence is the same in this regard as it is when talking about people. An arrogant person talks about all the great things he did, a confident person lets others talk about all the great things he did. |
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Obama's comments, are more for diplomacy than anything else. You don't gain cooperation from people by telling them or making them feel like you think you're superior to them. I think his words were more to mend the damage that Bush did to America's reputation in the world. I think arrogance is when you laud the things you did right while making excuses and not taking responsibility for the things you did wrong. Arrogance would be the US taking sole credit for winning WW2 or saying that Europe should be so grateful to us without acknowledging that maybe those other countries lost lives and sacrificed as well. It would be arrogant to think we went over there to save Europe when we did not enter the battle until Pearl Harbor. It'd be to forget the many many sacrifices of the Russians without whom, the war would not be won, they lost at least 20 million people (nearly 10 million military) all told they lost nearly 14% of their total population. By comparison we lost .32%. We should be proud of what we did, but not forget that others also fought and died. There are both arrogant and humble americans, as is the case in any other country. Well said, IMO. |
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Edited by
DaveyB
on
Sun 06/14/09 04:46 PM
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I wonder how many americans would get mad if the French were constantly telling us that they won our revolutionary war? It's like if you saw some guy getting beat up by a bully and you beat the bully up. The guy will probably be grateful and like you quite a bit, they'll think your a great person, maybe you become friends and hang out. Then you remind the person for the next 60 years that you saved their ass...at some point it'll get old and the guy will simply hate you. The difference between arrogance and confidence is the same in this regard as it is when talking about people. An arrogant person talks about all the great things he did, a confident person lets others talk about all the great things he did. none of this really matters as he was not speaking historically. When you read the entire text he's speaking of just the last eight years and our foreign policy. Bush bashing is what he was really doing. |
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I'm still on the original post....I'm slow like that.
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I'm still on the original post....I'm slow like that. lol the OP wasn't accurate. it got debunked. |
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I'm still on the original post....I'm slow like that. Davey found the original speech. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-President-Obama-at-Strasbourg-Town-Hall/ |
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Many MANY people around the world do think of America, and especially the American government as being arrogant.
I am sure America does have a lot to apologise for. I am also sure that America has a lot to be thanked for as well. Just like Great Britain, and just like many other countries. I dont think its going to do your nation any harm if Obama is apologising for certain past events(not that i looked into what exactly he was apologising for on this occasion). Good on him. America often comes across as thinking 'We are the most powerful country so we dont give a F'. You ARE the most powerful, but you aren't the only power, and you dont have absolute power over everything. You are accountable for when things are not done right, and you should definately admit to and apologise for things when that are done wrong. As should every country. |
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I was talking about all those numbers for americans dead on European soil.
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I was talking about all those numbers for americans dead on European soil. Doesn't really mesh with what you said but ok. Still as far as I can tell Obama was not really apologetic and when you figure he added to it the failings of European countries I sure as hell wouldn't have accepted as an apology if I were on the other end. It'd be like saying, I'm sorry I punched you in the face but you shouldn't have looked at me. That's not an apology and neither really were Obama's statements. |
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I wonder how many americans would get mad if the French were constantly telling us that they won our revolutionary war? It's like if you saw some guy getting beat up by a bully and you beat the bully up. The guy will probably be grateful and like you quite a bit, they'll think your a great person, maybe you become friends and hang out. Then you remind the person for the next 60 years that you saved their ass...at some point it'll get old and the guy will simply hate you. The difference between arrogance and confidence is the same in this regard as it is when talking about people. An arrogant person talks about all the great things he did, a confident person lets others talk about all the great things he did. none of this really matters as he was not speaking historically. When you read the entire text he's speaking of just the last eight years and our foreign policy. Bush bashing is what he was really doing. Davey, Didn't other countries start looking at us negatively while Bush was in office? |
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It'd be to forget the many many sacrifices of the Russians without whom, the war would not be won, they lost at least 20 million people (nearly 10 million military) all told they lost nearly 14% of their total population. By comparison we lost .32%. Sorta  , but the only reason Russia joined the Allies was because Germany turned on them. It would be inaccurate to say they were philosophical allies. If Germany hadn't turned on them they would have had no reason to help the Allied forces. From 39-41 they were cooperating with the German forces.
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I wonder how many americans would get mad if the French were constantly telling us that they won our revolutionary war? It's like if you saw some guy getting beat up by a bully and you beat the bully up. The guy will probably be grateful and like you quite a bit, they'll think your a great person, maybe you become friends and hang out. Then you remind the person for the next 60 years that you saved their ass...at some point it'll get old and the guy will simply hate you. The difference between arrogance and confidence is the same in this regard as it is when talking about people. An arrogant person talks about all the great things he did, a confident person lets others talk about all the great things he did. none of this really matters as he was not speaking historically. When you read the entire text he's speaking of just the last eight years and our foreign policy. Bush bashing is what he was really doing. Davey, Didn't other countries start looking at us negatively while Bush was in office? That is apparently what Obama was talking about. |
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that is your OPINION that is what he is talking about.
I dont think Bush was around for the cold war. Or the spread or use of nucs...... and I wouldnt blame pollution on bush either. One of these days using Bush wont be a viable excuse for when Mr Obama puts his foot in his mouth. or worse. |
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