okay, maybe it was more than a few nips from the flask. It was a lot of nips! OOPS! I Am drinking water this time and saying thanks to those who posted. Tis a murky world indeed but you have all made valid points and believe it or not, i do actually feel better about the whole thing! Thanks!!!

smiles man, you seem like a really mellow guy but belushi is right! It a wonder our beloved leaders don't hang themselves with their heads shoved so far up their asses

LMAO

I actually used to be agnostic. I was prepared to be swayed.
Too many contradictions to be the word of a divine being.


This sound exactly like where I am at now as a person and the reason I posted!

You know its funny, I was just thinking about what you were saying about being in the cages, well, I wonder how you would feel outside the cage. The reason I say that is I've bumped into more than my share of bears in middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. its funny because I was sure praying to a god I didn't really believe in to save my ass while I was running like crazy!

man, I'll hit the cages with you anytime!

okay so here's question then. what do you call the feeling you get when your travelling the world and you see or experience something that gives you that feeling? Religious people tend to call it god but what do you call it. When i'm at work and i'm standing at the top of a mountain at sunrise and the sun is coming up with not a soul in sight it just makes me feel......... well, I don't know. do you just call it feeling alive? I've seen so many things that the rest of the world will never see. Its so strange man, I don't know what to call it but its something! maybe I will just call it the mystery! I still worry about frying in some kind of hell for night like tonight when I've been into the spirits sort of speak. I do like to have a couple beers now and again!

wow man, like I said you have some intersting things to say. Granted I'm from Canada so religion isn't as extreme here. don't you get at least a little bit spooked by the whole thing? Maybe I'm starting to fall prey to the biggest boogie man story ever but I don't know. I'm on the fence I guess.

Belushi, glad you could make it man! You seem to have some pretty interesting things to say. Lets here it!

its a loaded topic thats for sure. I figured I needed some time off so i'm going travelling for the next year. I'm will hopefully be leaving in August if things go well. I need to get away from Science and gods and everything else. The pubs in England and the rest of the world are calling I guess! hehehehe

funny how kids can put things in a proper perspective isn't it.

thanks max, with my job, its kind of a double edge sword if you will. I collect the data that wildife biologist use. So for them its all numbers and gps locations but for me its mountain tops, animals, sunsets and life. I guess it just makes it hard to by into the fact that there is nothing else. The feeling is to powerful but I just don't know what to believe. I figured at least once in my life I would ask people who do know because I sure as hell don't.

No worries, I wasn't looking to have the whole thing explained to me. Its hard to explain the conflict I have going. I guess I have always like the idea of god in that it give peace and seems full of life. Science just always seems so cold and sterile as though they were in denial or something. I've always wanted to ask a doctor if they see themselves as healers of life or if they see themselve as naught but tissue mechanics. I liked what you said about science being the blue print. Thats sort of what I was looking for. maybe thats a cop out of my own but it makes sense in that it allows for both to exist side by side. maybe thats cheating though. who knows!

Yours spaceman, I like the way you look at it but I still have no idea if I believe in god or not. I guess I just can't wrap my head around the idea that one can believe in creationism but still say that evolution is valid. I guess I don't make a lick of sense but thats why I started the thread. I always felt kind of forced to choose one or the other. Like max says though, religion can't be explained in a simple chat thread.

Interesting statement! I don't know if I'm religious or not, thats the thing. some say they are christian, some say they are atheist, me I say i'm just plain lost!

Religion was a swear word in my house while I was growing up. I've spent my life bursting with questions so I finally figured what the heck. I'm finally going to ask some of them. I really did try and read the bible a long time ago but.......

To true mirror, I don't deny it! but thats kind of the point. On the flip side, I don't really understand scientist either. The whole thing kind of freaks me out. The closest thing to religious counsil I have ever had is a friend I grew up with who has gone to church his whole life and all he ever said is through your fears you will discover what you really believe! Trouble is, both sides kind of freak me out! science just seems to suck the life out of everything and it gets to me sometimes! I just figured I would ask people who do know. I just don't really know how to phrase what it is that is nagging at me!

I've had a pull pulls from the flask so please excuse if this doesn't make a whole lot of sense but here goes. I'm prety naive to the world of religion. I've never been to church and I've never read the bible. I actually work in science as a tech but that is sort of why I am posting this thread. I'm curious to hear from people who are religious that work in science. Do you feel obligated to choose one or the other? The balance of faith and academics is a tricky one that I seem to be hung up on in a big way. I don't think I'm an atheist but I don't know if I am religious either. Am I a whats the word agnostic? I hate feeling forced to choose one or the other. Is it possible to balance the two? How do you handle it? Scientists love to say there is no god but I always find it odd that the biggest argument that they bring to the table is when we die thats it! To me, thats not an argument thats a cop out. They never seem to explain why we are alive to begin with. Sometimes I feel like I'm going to fry in hell if I turn my back on faith and embrace the teachings of science. They say that the church is a boogie man story to keep people in line with unbending and outdated teachings but having worked with scientists, I kind of figure that science is even more ridid and unbending than the church! Its sad because the more that time passes the more I get pissy with both sides of the coin. People love to say that there is no god but that isn't what scares me. what scares me is what if there is!! hate to break it to you but if you put your life in a religious context, we're all pretty much screwed and that is more frightening than the though of god not being real! On the flip side though, its hard to believe in god or should I maybe say christianity because if you don't like the old testament, no problem we will just write a new one. It makes the whole thing look like a total hoax that gets rewritten to meet new arguments. If i've to believe its some divine text then who the hell are we to just up an re write it? In my mine, either it is or it isn't. YOu can't just write a new book that seems more appealing to the masses to win more people over. Granted I've never even read either testament so I'm totally niave on what they actually say. I'm not looking to be converted and I don't want to hear about which is right or wrong, I want to hear about how you balance both! does that make even an ounce of sense? Well I'm going to hit post now so hopefully you don't want to burn me at a stake or anything!

I had a really cool reply for you but then I realized why lower myself to your level. Sad truth that people like you need to lash out to make yourself feel better. Hope you feel better tommorow.

Funny how the best moments are never planned huh! When I was in high school, I took this trip to new york and met all kind of cool people but this one girl has stayed in my mine forever. we might have fooled around just a wee little bit but nothing to serious. Kids having fun I guess! I went to visit her about two years later in spokane where she was going to school but we lost contact after that. I always wonder what ever happened to her. She was taking fornesic medicine so I imagine she works for the FBI or something crazy like that. Its fun to wonder though. I don't know, I guess I tend to think about how many individuals shape us as people and remain in our minds but we never speak to them again. We always think of friends and family as the ones the shape who we are but random encounters play a bigger role than people realize. funny how it goes!