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| Topic: Two murderers escaped from NY prison. Still loose? | |
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A day ago or so two convicted murderers made a mystifying escape from an up-State New York prison.
What's baffling authorities is, the escape path includes having gone through thick prison walls; apparently with power tools. a) Where did the power tools come from? b) How could such power tool use be conducted in such densely populated area; and yet go undetected? c) Where are they now? And where are they headed? And what are their intentions? My neighbor suggested they're close enough to the Canadian border (which is substantially unguarded), they may be trying to escape to there. My suspicion is, rather than them digging their way out; they had some outside help that cut their way in; and released them. But that's a wild guess, based on information from preliminary reports, which are quite often inaccurate. Do you think they'll be caught? If so: - where? - when? - by whom? |
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So glad to see this thread , Bravo
 I just started reading this case, at least 5 links out there. This case is also a big hit on Twitter. These two escaped/ murder convicts,were in a maximum security prison. * Max security for obvious reasons, these guys can't be the average criminal of 55-90 IQ...  * So far, at 250 officials searching for them, after they escape leaving a note " HAVE A NICE DAY " REWARD - $100,000.00 It was,or is believe they were or would be headed for CANADA * I doubt that very much- too obvious & too soon  * |
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A day ago or so two convicted murderers made a mystifying escape from an up-State New York prison. What's baffling authorities is, the escape path includes having gone through thick prison walls; apparently with power tools. a) Where did the power tools come from? b) How could such power tool use be conducted in such densely populated area; and yet go undetected? c) Where are they now? And where are they headed? And what are their intentions? My neighbor suggested they're close enough to the Canadian border (which is substantially unguarded), they may be trying to escape to there. My suspicion is, rather than them digging their way out; they had some outside help that cut their way in; and released them. But that's a wild guess, based on information from preliminary reports, which are quite often inaccurate. Do you think they'll be caught? If so: - where? - when? - by whom? Unless they were well connected and financed they will be caught. There are many places within a large prison where power tools could be used and masked by other sounds, such as boilers, machinery and such. A small hand held tool such as a Dremel will cut thru most anything ( with the right bits)and time.. of which they had a lot of. These guys are not dumb and very creative when they want to be.. and very resourceful as well. I would not be surprised if ( as this story unfolds) they had some assistance from the inside. Someone looked the other way... wouldn't be the 1st time. But if so, they will be uncovered as well I just hope they get caught before they hurt a innocent person as they run |
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They are also close to Vermont. I didn't know the Canadian border was unguarded. I was thinking they can go to Quebec via Vermont or New Hampshire. The time that they were last seen from the 5:30am morning count is crucial because it takes about 1 day to walk to QC or Vermont.
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As racist as this sounds, if blacks had escaped and about to cross the border, patrol at the border would be suspicious because blacks are not resident to those parts of town. But these two suspects are white. People tend to lower guard at white people than they do of blacks. These suspects can blend in very easily and can assimilate in any town they go into because of their race. These suspects will be extremely difficult to find.
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Thanks for the additional info. S2.
I just caught a local news report on it that the prison they escaped was the largest of its kind in New York State. "There are many places within a large prison where power tools could be used and masked by other sounds, such as boilers, machinery and such." d1 Yes, BUT !! The pics I saw of it on TV indicated the wall opposite the bars at the back of their adjacent cells were thick concrete, and that power tools were used to cut through that. Looked to me like the hole in the wall was orthoganal. Dremels are indeed powerful tools. BUT!! I've never seen a saw blade on a Dremel that's more than about an inch in diameter. It might be a weeks or months long project to get through such a thick concrete wall as that. AND, where would they get the electrical outlet to run such a tool? Do they have electric outlets in prison cells? If it was a month long project, I suspect the plot would have been detected. So the suggestion is, they got it done in the time between bed-checks. At least ONE of the other prisoners in the cell-block would have had to have heard it. "I would not be surprised if ( as this story unfolds) they had some assistance from the inside. Someone looked the other way..." d1 I agree. I'd consider that nearly a certitude. I'd be curious to know what the pay-off was. Would it be worth it to prison guards to lose their job, and perhaps end up being residents of the prison they formerly "guarded"? "I just hope they get caught before they hurt a innocent person as they run" d1 Me too. I printed a pic of the two, and motorcycled over to a neighbor earlier today to look in on her. She was at home, with only her 4 year old granddaughter for company (protection). At least now she's aware of the problem. |
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NYS Governor Andrew Cuomo told one of the neighboring prisoners "you must have been in a deep sleep to not hear what was going on." I believe all the cells are single celled. So how could they have escaped from one hole? There had to have been 1 hole in each cell. The contractors could have given one of the inmates tools. And since the contractors are not legally bound to account for their tools, this means the state is A55ed out. This is what happens when you outsource. Did the guard do an inventory count on those contractors?
Dannemora state prison is very old. I've visited the prison a few times. The place is always on lockdown and the guards are extremely careful. They are always on top of things. Especially when it comes to attire. They will send you home if you don't comply with the rules. |
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Hey OP we didn't use power tools...those were only as a cover up...we actually walked right out through the front door on our way to you
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" I didn't know the Canadian border was unguarded." ue At the heavily trafficked border crossings that handle thousands of automobiles a day, there are multiple guards, identity checks, and more. But my comment was: "the Canadian border (which is substantially unguarded)" Lm Contrast it to our Mexican border. I gather much, if not most of the U.S. / Mexico border has a fence, and is patrolled both on the ground and in the air. But the ~3,000 mile long U.S. Canada border is mostly unguarded. It's just woods. Not only not a fence. Potentially not even a sign. A hiker might cross the international border, and not even know it. That's far less likely on our Southern border. " These suspects will be extremely difficult to find. " ue Could be. I was astounded at how quickly the French police identified the masked gunmen that shot up Charlie Hebdo. Today police work isn't the way it was 30 years ago. 5 or ten years ago a group of escapees holed up at a camp ground. When the authorities showed up to rearrest them, they were circled around a campfire, studying the Holy Bible. Odd, as I think one of them murdered a guard to escape. |
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I didn't read all the comments.
My thoughts on this is they had help somewhere... Power tools going off would or should have been noticed.. The canadian border would be extremely hard to patrol the entire thing. Also I don't think they would make it to canada, they may try to make it. Chances are going through the brush and woods will be their downfall unless they are very skilled at survival of the fitest in extreme terrain. We have people up here in Ak think they will try this and they usually die out there and we find the bones many years later. Hope they are caught soon. Should be interesting to hear the details on the escape as they unfold and unfold they will. |
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Well SR,
I'm guessing you're right. If they were sticking to main roads, they'd probably be back in custody already. An hour ago local weather report is, by tomorrow morning, a cold front will move in from the Northwest. The temp. may drop, and there may be heavy rains. They may turn themselves in, just for a dry blanket and a warm cup of coffee. - or - Maybe they'll get eaten by bears. |
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Thanks for the additional info. S2. I just caught a local news report on it that the prison they escaped was the largest of its kind in New York State. "There are many places within a large prison where power tools could be used and masked by other sounds, such as boilers, machinery and such." d1 Yes, BUT !! The pics I saw of it on TV indicated the wall opposite the bars at the back of their adjacent cells were thick concrete, and that power tools were used to cut through that. Looked to me like the hole in the wall was orthoganal. Dremels are indeed powerful tools. BUT!! I've never seen a saw blade on a Dremel that's more than about an inch in diameter. It might be a weeks or months long project to get through such a thick concrete wall as that. AND, where would they get the electrical outlet to run such a tool? Do they have electric outlets in prison cells? If it was a month long project, I suspect the plot would have been detected. So the suggestion is, they got it done in the time between bed-checks. At least ONE of the other prisoners in the cell-block would have had to have heard it. "I would not be surprised if ( as this story unfolds) they had some assistance from the inside. Someone looked the other way..." d1 I agree. I'd consider that nearly a certitude. I'd be curious to know what the pay-off was. Would it be worth it to prison guards to lose their job, and perhaps end up being residents of the prison they formerly "guarded"? "I just hope they get caught before they hurt a innocent person as they run" d1 Me too. I printed a pic of the two, and motorcycled over to a neighbor earlier today to look in on her. She was at home, with only her 4 year old granddaughter for company (protection). At least now she's aware of the problem. We I was a youngster I worked for awhile as a corrections officer in Rahway State Prison ( Now Northern State Prison) In Jersey. ( hated it!) It was a self contained city.. work shops, machine shops, automotive shops, ect. Some areas were loud enough that ear plugs were issued. Every tool known to mankind was there. They used to repair the State Police cars.. which I thought hysterical. The ways and means were there. There was also no shortage of nooks and crannies in that complex. These inmates are very cleaver and not all correction officers are good. May have been arrested for assisting inmates over the years. Anyway, I hope they catch these guy. I never understood why they run to Canada.. do they really think the Canadians are just going to welcome them in.... the chase doesn't stop at the boarder |
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As racist as this sounds, if blacks had escaped and about to cross the border, patrol at the border would be suspicious because blacks are not resident to those parts of town. But these two suspects are white. People tend to lower guard at white people than they do of blacks. These suspects can blend in very easily and can assimilate in any town they go into because of their race. These suspects will be extremely difficult to find. *Patrol at the border would be suspicious "  That doesn't make sense. 250 officials trying to find these guys no matter what they look like .What is suspicious about officials doing their job? And you check stats on Canada's racial & cultural diversity. They are not a country full of white people wearing berets. |
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NYS Governor Andrew Cuomo told one of the neighboring prisoners "you must have been in a deep sleep to not hear what was going on." I believe all the cells are single celled. So how could they have escaped from one hole? There had to have been 1 hole in each cell. The contractors could have given one of the inmates tools. And since the contractors are not legally bound to account for their tools, this means the state is A55ed out. This is what happens when you outsource. Did the guard do an inventory count on those contractors? Dannemora state prison is very old. I've visited the prison a few times. The place is always on lockdown and the guards are extremely careful. They are always on top of things. Especially when it comes to attire. They will send you home if you don't comply with the rules. I wouldn't say " They are on top of things " We don't know that, & they obviously escaped. The dress code of visitors (especially women) is always very strick ( for safety) for the inmates & guards & employee & visitor protection, in all American prisons. |
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As racist as this sounds, if blacks had escaped and about to cross the border, patrol at the border would be suspicious because blacks are not resident to those parts of town. But these two suspects are white. People tend to lower guard at white people than they do of blacks. These suspects can blend in very easily and can assimilate in any town they go into because of their race. These suspects will be extremely difficult to find. *Patrol at the border would be suspicious " That doesn't make sense. 250 officials trying to find these guys no matter what they look like .What is suspicious about officials doing their job? And you check stats on Canada's racial & cultural diversity. They are not a country full of white people wearing berets. I was hoping someone would catch this exactly... I am not sure if these convicts were on death row or not..One of the reasons years ago death row escapees would run for Canada was Canada didn't have extradition for death row people.. Not sure if this has changed or not, remember it from years ago. I am sure someone from Canada will come in and correct me if I am wrong. |
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"... the chase doesn't stop at the boarder" d1 True. BUT !! It introduces significant jurisdictional complications, including: - Governor Cuomo has ~250 LEOs working the case. Their work is quite likely to stop at the border. - That drops these two hot potatoes in Canada's lap. And they don't have a whole lot of $financial $incentive to fund a $multi-$million $dollar manhunt; to clean up the mess the U.S. is responsible for. "They are not a country full of white people wearing berets." S2 Tidy whities? I thought Canada was substantially White skinned. I know the larger cities may have minority residents. But there aren't a lot of Black ***** on the Toronto Maple Leaf's bench. |
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As racist as this sounds, if blacks had escaped and about to cross the border, patrol at the border would be suspicious because blacks are not resident to those parts of town. But these two suspects are white. People tend to lower guard at white people than they do of blacks. These suspects can blend in very easily and can assimilate in any town they go into because of their race. These suspects will be extremely difficult to find. *Patrol at the border would be suspicious " That doesn't make sense. 250 officials trying to find these guys no matter what they look like .What is suspicious about officials doing their job? And you check stats on Canada's racial & cultural diversity. They are not a country full of white people wearing berets. I was hoping someone would catch this exactly... I am not sure if these convicts were on death row or not..One of the reasons years ago death row escapees would run for Canada was Canada didn't have extradition for death row people.. Not sure if this has changed or not, remember it from years ago. I am sure someone from Canada will come in and correct me if I am wrong. --------------------------------------------------------- A Primer of United States Extradition Law ( Canada-Us Extraction Law, including heinous crimes) updated April 2009 http://www.free existence.org/us_extradition.html |
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Edited by
SassyEuro2
on
Sun 06/07/15 05:04 PM
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Correction:
Lm previously posted: "the escape path includes having gone through thick prison walls" Lm "the wall opposite the bars at the back of their adjacent cells were thick concrete" Lm This is NOT correct. A local news broadcast on this showed a still image depicting the wall as perhaps less than one quarter inch thick. So perhaps the Dremel comment wasn't so far off. That same still image also shows what appears to be an electrical wire. So perhaps there are electrical outlets in prison cells. |
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As racist as this sounds, if blacks had escaped and about to cross the border, patrol at the border would be suspicious because blacks are not resident to those parts of town. But these two suspects are white. People tend to lower guard at white people than they do of blacks. These suspects can blend in very easily and can assimilate in any town they go into because of their race. These suspects will be extremely difficult to find. *Patrol at the border would be suspicious " That doesn't make sense. 250 officials trying to find these guys no matter what they look like .What is suspicious about officials doing their job? And you check stats on Canada's racial & cultural diversity. They are not a country full of white people wearing berets. But what if they went through VT to get to QB? Less than 2% of QB is dark skinned. And most of them probably live in Montreal. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers and I didn't mean any offense. But I'm just saying that it may be a little easier for the escapees to assimilate which would make finding them harder |
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