So the issue is more because you dont see reason to believe in what people have to say about God.
You want him to be the one who would actually talk to you about himself.

Yes. That is also why i ask the question.
We kill off each other because of survival. The eternal rat race. We want to come out on top and be able to assert ourselves, financially, sexually, reputation, power...etc...
I dont see the point of denying God's existence while at the same time blaming him for the atrocities human nature is capable of for the sake of survival...

Personally I don't believe it's purely for survival, we have choices. Also in order for us to recognize what love is, evil has to exist.

I know many people always say that if their is a God then why do bad things happen...i've heard it so much from so many...and have asked the same question myself many many times. But I realized, he has too, because he gave us a choice.

Consider the following the example.

A mother really really wants her daughter to be healthy, she removes any unhealthy food from the house, she homeschool's her daughter so she is can't choose bad food at school. The mother get's an online job so she can't be tempted by bad food...etc...basically sure ensures that wherever her daughter is, for the rest of her life, that their is only healthy food available, and the amount is regulated by an always present nutritionist.

So now here is the question, does the daughter understand the benefits of healthy eating? does she understand the consequences of unhealthy eating? Would she even know what 'unhealthy' meant?

Personally I'd say no.

But on the other hand, if you have a mother who keeps both unhealthy and healthy food in the house, explains the differences to her daughter, and teaches her about each then let's her choose, i'm sure the mother is proud when her daughter makes the right decision, but in order for that moment to possible, one must have the choice to make the wrong decision...and unfortunately that decision can hurt someone else. Yes it sucks, but it has to be able to happen for choice to truly exist.

I personally believe a God exists, because the evidence exists that we have a purpose other than survival, and personally i'm curious to figure out exactly what that purpose is.




From what I read in the Bible, I believe we have the potential to become "sons of God" probably to populate the universe. Christ was the first to be resurrected and there will be two more resurrections.

Romans 8:29

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

Colossians 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

I agree.
Free will is a gift from God.
What we choose to do with it in light of the situation we find ourselves in, partially defines the quality of a relationship with him.

I personally believe God exists. Believers will lose nothing and they get His love and assistants. Disbelievers will get nothing and lose His love, getting harsh punishment instead.

Quran 31; But if any reject the Faith, let not his rejection grieve you: for to Us they shall return, and We shall tell them the truth about their deeds: for God knows well all that is in the human hearts -- (23) We shall let them enjoy themselves for a little while, but then We shall drive them to a harsh punishment. (24)
Quran 10: Say, Those who invent falsehoods about God shall not prosper. (69) Their portion is short-lived enjoyment in this world; but to Us they shall return. Then We shall make them taste a severe punishment, because of their denial of truth. (70)
Bible;Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

My statement here was on based on the accounts of the gods I have read about in many religious text over the years and about the god character in these text. For example, the bible says god is the highest good then he kills almost everyone on the planet. That is a combination of an absurdity, an immoral behavior, and a contradiction of himself. I would think that a book that is even inspired by god would be free of these contradictions.


I'm looking for anything that could not be explained by someone just writing a story.


I agree that god is used as an scapegoat. Of course the existence of god doesn't depend on what people do. However, when the people that are telling me god exist are the same people that treat others terribly it hurts the credibility of their claims.


Science is the only thing that has been proven time and time again to produce an accurate picture of reality. This is because of the self correcting nature of science. It would also stand to reason that any god that answers prayers would be messerable. Prayer could be shown to work statistically better than chance. However, when these studies have been done. Prayer does no better than chance.


Most of the time that doesn't happen when they have been raised to question and examine everything.


If god exist and wants to have a relationship with you. Wouldn't it make sense for him to first establish the fact that he exist?

Neither of your analogies are the same as what Mr. Dillahunty said. The child's parents have already been proven to exist as far as the child is concerned. Same goes for the toxic relationships analogy.

A closer analogy is like being in school and the boy that has never had a girlfriend says he has a girlfriend, but you wouldn't know her because she goes to another school. Then provides no other credible evidence. While it could be true, is anyone likely to believe him?

Why shall god change your mind......
...Just to prove his capability?

Is your mind an unique & universally acceptable entity?

....some certifying agency??

Why shall he care to convince everyone for accepting his existence...particularly when he himself has created differently minded living beings..??

Whatever our thoughts are....those are originated from the soul...no one has yet proved the existence of soul too....that invisible driving power too is god's gift to you & god is making you think that he doesn't exist.

I can't tell you how many times I have been told that if I try god will reveal himself.


Unique - Possibly
Universally acceptable entity - Nope


Nope


I have no idea. I'm not the one that thinks he exist, nor am I the one that thinks he has/will reveal himself, nor am I the one that thinks he wants to have a relationship with me.


Going with that logic, it would be god's will I don't believe in him. If that is the case then he should tell his followers to stop trying to convert me.

A castle is built around a king as is a religion around a god.
Learn about the castle, learn about the god.
May not tell you about the god specifically, but again... which god are we talking about.. old testament god.. greek gods.. which one.

what are you talking about? invisible power? whats the point of god making anyone think it doesn't exist when everything you've been taught about god says otherwise? it's this kind of made up philosophies that make my decisions easy....

There is no God.. glad you finally came to that conclusion.. now maybe we can move on to more important things... like getting rid of the government..lol... and if there's any FBI agents reading this I'm only kidding I really really like the government

Because God has a sense of humour.If we knew for certain He existed then there would be nothing left to argue about.

are we talking about Noah and the flood, here?



you want to prove God as a scientifically reproducible concept?

i dunno...sometimes i think...if we want to prove anything as a scientifically reproducible concept...then that means we can induce it....

so to prove God as the same, you are saying that we can induce God?

so take for example the concepts of justice, love, integrity...etc...and their antitheses......to prove the existence of all of these, it should be explained by something that is not on the grounds of someone just writing a story about these things....that we would have to be able to show that these are reproducible and inducible, to say that they actually exist...otherwise, they really don't exist but are just figments of our overactive imagination...




well yes. because people are terribly terribly flawed.

say for example, if someone were to tell you and explain to you what virtue is, but live their life in vice, then does that mean that what they claim virtue to be is not credible?
same as with the opposite...if someone were to tell you how it is to be bad, but live their lives above par...does that mean their entire explanation of vice is not acceptable?

i dunno...it doesn't seem right, nor fair to judge God based on the credibility of people...people will always fall short, not just because of being flawed, but also because the person looking also has their own expectation of people.



i don't see it.
yes, science produce an accurate picture of the physical world we live in. all of it are governed by laws, and we did not know it first. it was set upon as such before we even knew of it.

hence, it becomes the question of what came first, the chicken or the egg.

you are saying that science came first, and we created the concept of God because of a lack of understanding in science...and the more we discover scientifically, the less is the power of God...

whereas the flipside is, God created it all, set with order and balance and such is what we discovered to be science...and the discoveries will be unending because we can only come to discover what has already been there since the beginning of time.

do you believe that it is possible for us to discover ALL that there is to be discovered in science to prove beyond doubt that God does not exist?



i think, those who were raised to question and examine everything are probably more likely to find God...
whereas those who think that they have found all the answers they need, are the ones who won't bother too much to examine who God really is...



but you are already assuming that he doesn't have a girlfriend...lol...

i think he has been establishing that for sometime. but some people don't want to acknowledge it for what it is, and gives different meaning to it.

like say a guy who loves a girl and does what he can accordingly... she could ignore it completely, acknowledge that it is there but reject it, wait and see if she develops feelings, try to take advantage of him, learn to trust and love him as well....or whatever else she chooses to do in between.

its a two way street...recognition is part of it.

well...just one God for me...lol...
i try to learn about him not basing on religion, but i do use the bible as reference

what proof are you looking for?

Yes, that was the reference. Though it is by no means the only one I could point to.

Anything that exist can be proven to exist.

Observation is a huge part of science. Much like studying apes in the wild you don't have to interact or induce anything. Just watch and see what happens. In fact, you are doing science wrong if you are inducing the outcome.

No, I'm saying if prayer worked then it would do statistically better than chance. Which it has failed over and over.

Are you saying god is just a concept? If so, then it doesn't matter if I believe it or not as it was made up to begin with. Just like every other concept out there.

So you are telling me that I should believe a claim made by person that has a history of lying without evidence? That would be completely illogical. Someone's character does not make their claim true or false. However, it can help or hurt their credibility. Even if it's the best person in the world, god existing would be an extraordinary claim. Like Carl Sagan said. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Science has answered that one. The Tyrannosaurus Rex wish is almost an exact genetic match with chickens.

The fact of reality came first. We are just stumbling through time trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Religion came about as a way to explain things. However, some people realised saying god did it doesn't give you an real understanding of what is going on. Since humans are curious creatures we look for the answers. Science is nothing the than the proven method to get valid answers.

If that is the case, then there should be evidence of it somewhere. Maybe it's only a matter of time before we find it. Maybe we never will. Until we find some, then I'm not going to accept a claim without it.

Not in any foreseeable future. I would put that up there as a possibility on the same level as god existing. Though enough lack of evidence is a kind of evidence itself. Though, it is impossible to prove a negative.

I'm rather sure you have that backwards because of the lack of evidence for god's existence.

Do you have any evidence to back that claim up?

But at least she would know he exist. When you love someone you tend to want them to know you exist.

That is exactly what I have been attempting to do most of my life. Recognize reality for what it is. If that includes god. Fine, but I need evidence to make me believe it. Just like I didn't believe two objects of different sizes would fall to the ground and hit at the same time in a vacuum until it was shown to me.

One of my many goals in life is to rid myself of all false beliefs. That simply means I need evidence to believe anything. Since I have found none for god, I don't believe in god. Much like, I didn't find any evidence for the tooth fairy, so I don't believe in the tooth fairy.

"people" have no better Idea about god than i do... if god is talking to them, then it has obviously has nothing to say to me... so what people say doesn't matter at all, especially when i hear the ridiculous babble some of the say...

People believe what they believe and can't convice them otherwise....on any side